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Topic: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat" (Read 47577 times)
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AngusThermopyle
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A paranoid android.
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Again, I think the point needs to be made that - to a novice/intermediate player - the Ur-Quan seems very powerful (even unfairly so). To a newbie, the fighters alone seem like an unstoppable force.
To be sure, the scope of this discussion is limited to a small sampling of UQM players. So I would hope that any changes to the Ur-Quan's tactical abilities be limited to a mod of some sort to enhance Melee play and/or increase the Full Game difficulty. I, personally, remain in favor of modifying point values only. But others may disagree of course.
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C. Bob
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Again, I think the point needs to be made that - to a novice/intermediate player - the Ur-Quan seems very powerful (even unfairly so). To a newbie, the fighters alone seem like an unstoppable force. Seems, but those people eventually become better players (or so we can hope), at which point they learn that Ur-Quan aren't. Appearances aren't everything, and especially so with Dreadnoughts.
To be sure, the scope of this discussion is limited to a small sampling of UQM players. So I would hope that any changes to the Ur-Quan's tactical abilities be limited to a mod of some sort to enhance Melee play and/or increase the Full Game difficulty. Nobody was saying we should call up Meep and alter UQM 0.7's ships. It being a mod was the only thing that was ever going to happen.
I, personally, remain in favor of modifying point values only. But others may disagree of course.
I do disagree. In some select cases, I believe some ships were supposed to be desirable ships, but they weren't because of shortsightedness. I'd like to see an improved Terminator, because it's implied that those ships are supposed to be able to fly out and seriously own people. They were said to be one of the primary combat ships of the Old Alliance. With the current setup, though, the Utwig are largely better, and so the Yehat are renowned only for being second-runners. Even many of the Old Alliance ships fly better, or have qualities that make them more qualified in the hands of elite players, for their costs.
Of course, altering the performance of every ship to rebalance them would be troublesome, and destroy much of the spirit of the game, so it isn't a realistic thing to do for all of them. However, I believe it would be viable in certain cases, especially with Ur-Quan (which, in the rebalanced costs mod, costs *less than Androsynth* -- ludicrous for the master race of the Hierarchy to have a worse ship than a thrall, even the Androsynth) and Thraddash (which nobody with sense ever flies, because it's a borefest ship).
C. Bob
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Elerium
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Yes but the Marauder will always have the advantage of range and turning. Most of the time you won't keep up with him and while you get close your slow maneuverability will mean you will run into the mines it spams. Launching fighters can have them picked off at range, although you can strike lucky and get in two fighters who'll take down his crew and he can't do anything other than use the FRIED after which he's expended his ammo, but the matchup is heavily in the Kohr-Ah's favor. Some of these players on #uqm-arena and myself agree the Ur-Quan is a tubboat which can deal the damage but simply can't get to using it, also it's overall design makes it cost ineffective.
With an Avatar, I'll just drag you in close once you're turned, slightly in the wrong direction where you can't use your fusion bolts or throw you into a planet. An Ur-Quan does badly against a good Avatar pilot.
Frontal assaults are cost ineffective in that the guy will just dance around you. Try doing frontal assaults with an Orz? a Spathi? The Marauder and Avatar mop them up pretty well, the Dreadnought however does not.
You might as well spend the money on an Utwig which can do good against both the Marauder (if you are good with reactions) although it's generally slow and might be unable to keep up. It's also generally solid against an Avatar. Not to mention it's one of the primary killers of the Kzer-Za as the bolts are slow so you can pick it off at range. Heck even the Yehat with its spammable sheilds can pick off the Kzer-Za going in hot, and I've even seen ZFP and Androsynth get lucky and kill it too, same goes for a skilled Arilou pilot.
The only thing I could see the Ur-Quan useful is if the guy makes extensive use of Hierarchy ships. It really is the banana boat, and I could take it provided it had a cost decrease to make up for it's efficiency.
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« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 01:33:29 pm by Elerium »
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Shiver
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Elerium has a few minor details wrong, but is mostly on the mark. Let me just say that Zoq-Fot-Pik is not going to ever beat a player-controlled Ur-Quan.
Dreadnought has superior firepower to the Avatar and its brother the Marauder. A Dreadnought can easily raped an Avatar. The key is to use your own fusion bolts to shield the Dreadnought from the Avatar's devastating laser.
Chmmr has a higher rate of damage even if you ignore its satellites. The terrawatt laser hits for 2 damage per frame, while Ur-Quan can fire a 6 damage projectile every 7 frames. Sorry bro, Chmmr hits harder. As for Ur-Quan fusion bolts blocking the laser, I suppose that might be technically possible but I haven't noticed it happen before in any significant way that changed the outcome of a fight. The one advantage Ur-Quan has against Chmmr is longer range, but Ur-Quan usually misses a good portion of its long shots fired due to blind spots between the 16 directions a ship is allowed to face. Sometimes it can beat Chmmr, but usually not.
And Kohr-Ah? No way. Kohr-Ah ravages Ur-Quan almost every time unless the Kohr-Ah player has no idea what he's doing. The one situation I can see Ur-Quan coming out on top of a Kohr-Ah is if the two ships spawn in extremely close proximity to each other with the Ur-Quan facing the Kohr-Ah.
The Dreadnought annihilates majority of the small ships without too much trouble. The only small ship that still rapes the Dreadnought is the underrated Skiff.
This is just silly. Play a few people in #UQM-Arena if you want to make a point.
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« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 04:23:09 pm by Shiver »
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Niles
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Perhaps the plasma torpedoes could be made homing?
The fighters should/could also avoid attacks, if possible.
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Niles
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Well, I guess it depends on what kind of ship we want it to be...
I personally think that the Ur-Quan should have a 30-point ship.
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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If the homing is on the 10 degree scale, well, cos(10°) ~= 1. It's not going to slow it down that much.
As far as missing when it would have hit, limpets are slow, which is kind of the reverse of the fusion bolt. There is only time for slight course corrections.
I think the odd edge-case disadvantage would be massively outweighed by the advantage.
Of course, if we really want to change things around a bit, we can go back to an unguided shot, but make it get bigger and bigger, which would have much the same effect without the opportunity to miss. Could get fouled up by asteroids, though.
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