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Author Topic: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"  (Read 37666 times)
Death 999
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #90 on: July 07, 2008, 06:35:32 pm »

I like the explosion, but it seems similar to the Chenjesu blasts.

Another idea I had was to have the shots emerge from the side pods instead of the nose, and alternate sides. That would make the dead zones narrower and further away.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #91 on: July 07, 2008, 06:45:29 pm »

I'd rather have the shots come from the sides and fire from both sides at once. Simpler to code, less (pointlessly) confusing to play...
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #92 on: July 07, 2008, 10:29:56 pm »

I guess so; but we'd need to rebalance the damage rate in that case.

3 damage each per shot, to keep the same total? Or, since hitting with both is less likely, more? 6, as this is intended to be a buff?

Or would we halve the fire rate?

To avoid this is why I was thinking of alternating.
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #93 on: July 08, 2008, 12:53:14 am »

No, we wouldn't have to make any other change; the point is to make it significantly more powerful. It's supposed to be worth around 30, and as it stands it wouldn't even be at 18 in the price mod if it wasn't for its effectiveness against Chmmr in particular.

Also, compare with the fact that simply doubling its current damage to 12 would be a generally ineffective measure, since its main problem against most ships is when it does not hit in the first place.
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #94 on: July 08, 2008, 09:35:09 am »

And even when it is an effective counter to chmmr, there are also cheaper alternatives.
So Ur-Quan is never used anyway.

It needs to be made more powerful against small ships.
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #95 on: July 08, 2008, 12:25:12 pm »

And even when it is an effective counter to chmmr, there are also cheaper alternatives.
So Ur-Quan is never used anyway.
I'm talking about the price mod here. The only other ships that can expect to take out half a Chmmr's crew are Druuge, Utwig, and Chenjesu, and they cost 20, 22, and 22 respectively. As far as I'm concerned, UQ is the most aggressively priced Chmmr counter in the mod, which makes up for it being mediocre at everything else.

Double shots would definitely help against smaller ships, which can currently take advantage of the blind spots that literally go all the way up to its hull.
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #96 on: July 08, 2008, 02:24:16 pm »

Double shots would definitely help against smaller ships, which can currently take advantage of the blind spots that literally go all the way up to its hull.

Ha, I remember that. You might have noticed it earlier, but I didn't know until we played Androsynth vs Ur-Quan repeatedly. The tiny little comet could attack Ur-Quan head-on without taking damage. That was beatdown of the century for Ur-Quan.
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Death 999
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #97 on: July 09, 2008, 06:08:16 pm »

Here's an SVN diff, replacing my old file diff. This one also uses indenting more consistent with the rest of the code.

Code:
Index: trunk/sc2/src/sc2code/ships/urquan/urquan.c
===================================================================
--- trunk/sc2/src/sc2code/ships/urquan/urquan.c (revision 3029)
+++ trunk/sc2/src/sc2code/ships/urquan/urquan.c (working copy)
@@ -117,27 +117,42 @@
 #define MISSILE_HITS 10
 #define MISSILE_DAMAGE 6
 #define MISSILE_OFFSET 8
-#define URQUAN_OFFSET 32
+#define URQUAN_OFFSET_FORE 16
+#define URQUAN_OFFSET_SIDE 48
  STARSHIP *StarShipPtr;
  MISSILE_BLOCK MissileBlock;
+ SIZE xOff, yOff;
+ COUNT angle;
 
  GetElementStarShip (ShipPtr, &StarShipPtr);
- MissileBlock.cx = ShipPtr->next.location.x;
- MissileBlock.cy = ShipPtr->next.location.y;
  MissileBlock.farray = StarShipPtr->RaceDescPtr->ship_data.weapon;
  MissileBlock.face = MissileBlock.index = StarShipPtr->ShipFacing;
  MissileBlock.sender = (ShipPtr->state_flags & (GOOD_GUY | BAD_GUY))
  | IGNORE_SIMILAR;
- MissileBlock.pixoffs = URQUAN_OFFSET;
+ MissileBlock.pixoffs = URQUAN_OFFSET_FORE;
  MissileBlock.speed = MISSILE_SPEED;
  MissileBlock.hit_points = MISSILE_HITS;
  MissileBlock.damage = MISSILE_DAMAGE;
  MissileBlock.life = MISSILE_LIFE;
  MissileBlock.preprocess_func = NULL;
  MissileBlock.blast_offs = MISSILE_OFFSET;

+ angle = FACING_TO_ANGLE (MissileBlock.face) + QUADRANT;

+ xOff = COSINE(angle, URQUAN_OFFSET_SIDE);
+ yOff = SINE(angle, URQUAN_OFFSET_SIDE);

+ MissileBlock.cx = ShipPtr->next.location.x + xOff;
+ MissileBlock.cy = ShipPtr->next.location.y + yOff;

  FusionArray[0] = initialize_missile (&MissileBlock);


+ MissileBlock.cx = ShipPtr->next.location.x - xOff;
+ MissileBlock.cy = ShipPtr->next.location.y - yOff;
+ FusionArray[1] = initialize_missile (&MissileBlock);
 
- return (1);
+ return (2);
 }
 
 #define TRACK_THRESHOLD 6



Having played a little with it, I think it's a dramatic improvement.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 10:45:44 pm by Death 999 » Logged
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #98 on: July 09, 2008, 09:19:27 pm »

Sorry to ask such a silly question but how can I use this code on my UQM ?
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #99 on: July 09, 2008, 10:01:36 pm »

Sorry to ask such a silly question but how can I use this code on my UQM ?
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Apply patch to source code and recompile. If you don't understand the previous sentence, I estimate it'll take you several days of work to sort it out, and in the meantime someone more knowledgeable (and with a working UQM development environment) will have provided you with an easier solution (this is called "waiting for a modified binary").
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #100 on: July 10, 2008, 09:23:04 am »

Is it possible to compile windows version of UQM with any free compilers ?
Is it only one file which is being compiled, not the whole game ?
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #101 on: July 10, 2008, 02:58:30 pm »

Is it possible to compile windows version of UQM with any free compilers ?
Yes, I favour MinGW. I have written some brief instructions on compiling UQM with MinGW, but it's been a while since I tested them.

Quote
Is it only one file which is being compiled, not the whole game ?
If you have suitable object files for all the other source files, you only need to recompile the modified source file and relink. If you don't (most likely if you've never compiled UQM), you'll have to build it all.
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2008, 12:39:00 am »

I agree that the ur-quan is over-valued, though not for any particular tactical shortcomings (in my opinion, it can hold its own against almost any ship rather well), but rather because it simply lacks endurance. Fighters are powerful but tend to get killed by asteroids/stray fire/collisions with ships. If you want to have your ur-quan last, you need to use them sparingly. They're also quite unintelligent, mindlessly pursuing an enemy instead of plotting an intercept course (like looping around the screen, maybe).

     If we were to make a Melee mod, I would recommend some of the following as potential ideas:
1. Make the fighters behave like Orz marines: bounce off ships and asteroids instead of crash into them; pull gravity whips; fly smarter (not fly in a predictable straight line towards target but "deek" a bit;  try to plot intercept vector. )
2. Make it so that the fighters don't expire. Sure, they should have to "return to base" instead of stay out perpetually, but actually having them die sucks. I think this is a huge problem and should be fixed. Their engagement time should be limited but they should not actually die.
3. I really don't think that the ur-quan should be made more maneuverable--its lack of maneuverability is the only thing that smaller ships have on it so they can get behind it to tongue/whatever. I wouldn't be opposed to a longer range blaster, however, for standoffs, or maybe a faster firing rate for those close encounters.

Either that or just reduce the cost of the banana boat. Personally though, even though it's a weak ship, I love the ur-quan.
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #103 on: July 24, 2008, 12:24:33 am »

Time to revive an old topic with a new idea.

The problem, as I see it, is that the Ur-Quan sucks and people want its projectile to be homing. People also don't like it seeming like a Cruiser missile. So, for starters, how about making the plasma projectile strafe? Not only does this improve the uniqueness of the ship, it also prevents sprites-looking-like-crap-because-they're-rotatedness. Of course, it's not quite as homing as other weapons but if the guns were mounted in the nacelles instead of the nose and the turning ansd speed were improved AND the fighters were given the improvements previously discussed, the Dreadnought could once again rule the stars. As it is it's a sick, green, fatassed joke.
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Re: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat"
« Reply #104 on: July 24, 2008, 04:41:58 am »

Okay, I’ve just read all 7 pages of this thread.

Going back to what Angus said aaaages ago, I think he’s right about the Ur-quan being valued highly in SC1 because of the fortress destroying thing.

Nevertheless, I believe that the Ur-Quan SHOULD be a feared and destructive ship. When I see an opposing player’s fleet contain an Ur-Quan, or when I bump into four-strong squadron  of Ur-Quan in the full game, I want to crap my pants

There’s any number obvious things you can do to make the Ur-Quan a better ship.

I’d like to see subtle changes that keep the essence of the Ur-Quan. It’s supposed to be a big mean ship with awesome fire power.

It should demolish most small ships, but it should also be vulnerable to the Chmmr – remember, the Chmmr was designed to destroy Ur-Quan. Ideally it should be able to foot it with a Kohr-ah too.

I think only three things need to be changed:
  • The fighters should bounce off/evade asteroids and enemy ships – and they should not expire.
  • Fusion blasts should be less fuel intensive. I think this would have a BIG impact, especially against other cap ships.
  • Improve the turning rate so it can’t get so easily picked apart by small ships and Orz marines

Interesting idea:
  • Could you make it so some small fighters diverted their attention to Orz marines, DOGIs etc?

After this, we need to fix the Yehat and the Chenjesu. And the frickin Thraddash!

P.S. homing fusion blasts is a crap idea
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