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Author Topic: Orz marines  (Read 4595 times)
Spektrowski
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Orz marines
« on: February 01, 2007, 05:20:10 pm »

It was probably discussed a dozen times before... but what happens to the Orz marines that get killed on an enemy ship?
I also had another Orz question - how they actually build ships and exoskeletons if they are "not *many bubbles*" (incorporeal, as I understand it), but then I remembered that the Arilou control their ships with telekinesis, so it's probably the same with the Orz?
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Valaggar
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 05:49:55 pm »

The extradimensional Orz entity, the creature behind the *fingers*, is incorporeal. The *fingers* live in our dimension, so they are forced to obey the rules of this dimension, such as to be composed of atoms.
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Spektrowski
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 06:10:21 pm »

So, if to follow this theory, other races might be able to gather and study the actual Orz corpses if they kill marines and survive against their mothership?
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Valaggar
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 06:21:04 pm »

Why not? The *fingers* are not so strange, maybe. Or perhaps, MORE LIKELY, they disintegrate when they die because the connection with Orz is severed.
And, do not forget, when talking with the Orz we see a *finger* keeping himself busy at a console that looks like a starmap.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 06:29:36 pm by Valaggar » Logged
Shiver
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 09:19:47 pm »

Before they appeared in true space, the Orz hivemind prepared suits and ships for its little fish men. That's the best hypothesis I can come up with.
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Novus
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2007, 10:32:58 am »

One other interpretation is that the Orz are more or less normal TrueSpace beings, but are in constant communication with each other and the Orz entity from *below* and lack a will of their own (i.e. the Orz entity is using a Borg-like collective as prosthetic *fingers* (and "eyes" and "ears") to act in TrueSpace). This raises the possibility that the Orz we see are TrueSpace lifeforms that have been twisted into acting as *fingers* for the Orz, and the Androsynth did disappear in a manner consistent with this theory (pulled apart by something from another *space*).

One problem with this is that the Orz we speak to refer to themselves as *fingers* *pushed* into our *space*:
Quote from: Orz
Here is *good news*! Six or nine *pieces* ago, myself the Orz did not even *smell* your *level*. Can you believe? It is so silly! It is such a *happy town*. Then the Androsynth made some *slippery places* and then Orz can *smell* it. It *smells* so good Orz are surprised! I, myself pushed the *fingers* into the *new town* and there are so many *campers*.

This can be resolved by interpreting *fingers* to mean something that functions as a conduit for the will of the Orz, not the physical bodies (*many bubbles*, meaning either cell-based life or multiple organisms; the latter makes slightly more sense in the following) themselves. This is supported by:
Quote from: Orz
That is *funny*. You think you *see* Orz but Orz are not *light reflections*. Maybe you think Orz are *many bubbles* too. It is such a joke. Orz are not *many bubbles* like *campers*. Orz are just Orz. I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*. My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles* but it is really *fingers*.

My interpretation is something like: "That is funny. You think you perceive Orz, but Orz are not something you can see, hear or scan. Maybe you think Orz are separate organisms too. It is such a joke. Orz are not individuals like TrueSpace beings. Orz are just Orz. I am Orz. I can project my will into many places. I reach through into TrueSpace and you see Orz organisms, but they are really the meat puppets I use to interact with TrueSpace."
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2007, 10:12:26 pm »

Alas, my "best hypothesis" is spew. Running with Novus's thing, it's more likely that the Orz hivemind re-arranged the atoms of all Androsynth citizens and soldiers into Orz. But then, why is the Androsynth homeworld war ravaged when you visit it? And why would the Orz relocate to another planet to set up a base of operations?
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Valaggar
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 09:12:52 am »

Quote from: Shiver
And why would the Orz relocate to another planet to set up a base of operations?

That's easy. They went to the Playground because it was a *slippery* place and the home of the Taalo.

Quote from: Shiver
Running with Novus's thing, it's more likely that the Orz hivemind re-arranged the atoms of all Androsynth citizens and soldiers into Orz. But then, why is the Androsynth homeworld war ravaged when you visit it?

Hmm... yes, I don't think the Orz are Androsynth (I read Novus's post a bit attentionless, sorry). Still, if Orz snagged the Androsynth into his dimension, why is all that damage? Perhaps he wasn't very accurate, and snagged parts of buildings too out of mistake.
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Novus
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 10:24:57 am »

Still, if Orz snagged the Androsynth into his dimension, why is all that damage? Perhaps he wasn't very accurate, and snagged parts of buildings too out of mistake.
Everything looks like it was shot at from the ground, according to Xeno-historian Kilgore's report from the planet. Science officer Bukowski, shortly after figuring out what's going on, not only goes insane and tries to tear everything down; he also seems to be getting cut by something that can't be seen.

My interpretation is that proximity to the Androsynth's experimental portal (presumably to *below*) allows Orz *fingers* to reach into someone. Bukowski's mysteriously appearing injuries and insanity may be a side effect of *fingers* trying to gain control of him (which would probably involve some serious changes) (a simple Orz vs Androsynth land war with conventional weapons does not explain this). Now, what happens if a bunch of Androsynth soldiers with nuclear bazookas are subjected to the same thing? A lot of nuked buildings, that's what!

Considering that no one reports any further problems with Bukowski, he apparently recovers upon leaving the Androsynth homeworld. This suggests that any Androsynth far enough from their homeworld (or capable of escaping quickly enough) would have survived. The Orz may also have captured some for further study. However, the theory that the Orz we see are horribly twisted Androsynth seems to be holding up pretty well.
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Draxas
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 05:34:29 pm »

Quote from: Shiver
And why would the Orz relocate to another planet to set up a base of operations?

That's easy. They went to the Playground because it was a *slippery* place and the home of the Taalo.

You do know that the Orz have an actual homeworld elsewhere in their SOI, right? The Taalo's world is only defended by a relatively small fleet, so that you can still retrieve the artifact even if you make enemies out of the Orz. Now, the question remains why the Orz decided to set up shop on this one random planet instead of, say, their favorite *playground* or the conquered homeworld of the *silly cows* with its existing infrastructure. Then again, it's possible that these worlds are unsuitable for some reason; as I recall, someone mentions that the Orz breathe methane gas (or some other non-Earthlike atmospheric gas, anyway) inside their suits, so I suppose worlds without a natural atmosphere of that type would probably be pretty impractical for them to colonize with their physical forms.

As for everything else, though, I think Novus has it spot-on.
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AngusThermopyle
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 05:15:24 pm »

So here's a hypothetical situation:

Say a Syreen hypnotizes an Orz crewman. Even though the Orz are mere projections, as stated above, wouldn't the fact that one hypnotized crewman means the entire 'Orz collective' is similarly hypnotized?

Also, while we are on the topic of the Orz, I'm assuming that any Nemesis ships you build at the Starbase are crewed by humans and/or Shofixti, right? That would imply that any raiders you launch are in fact humans/Shofixti in modified Orz combat suits. Too bad they couldn’t retrofit a few Cruisers to launch similar raiders...
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Draxas
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2007, 06:17:35 pm »

I like to believe that the inside of the Nemesis is simply too hostile an environment for any race besides Orz to operate effectively in, meaning that they're crewed solely by Orz. I mean, with extensive training, you could probably get humans and/or Shofixti to reach a level of ability with isolation suits in a liquid environment where they would be effective... But who has that kind of time, and those kind of resources? It's simpler to just crew the vessel with natives, especially since Hayes implies that there are quite a lot of Orz stomping around the base after you ally with them.

As for the Syreen, I figure their special causes one or more *fingers* to lose their connection to whatever sort of collective intelligence governs the Orz, causing those so hypnotized to come under the control of the Syreen captain the same as any other race. Besides, they already have the isolation suits, so survival inside the vessel isn't a problem.
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Death 999
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2007, 06:28:45 pm »

You can however crew up the Orz with crew pulled from the Vindicator, which suggests a strong degree of adaptibility.
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Draxas
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2007, 07:42:59 pm »

I'll chalk that one up to game balance, or not wanting to make special exceptions in crew transfers. Maybe there are some Orz serving aboard or something. Roll Eyes
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countchocula86
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Re: Orz marines
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2007, 07:54:31 pm »

Bah, 'game balance' is the lazy mans way out! Tongue It's all about the crazy, ridiculously intricate explanations that are the best.
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