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Author Topic: Melee Aggression  (Read 11738 times)
Squisherxxx
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Melee Aggression
« on: February 08, 2007, 10:57:40 pm »

I find many people playing melee have lost sight of the point of the game, that is, to have fun.

There are certain matchups in UQM which are somewhat of a stalemate.  That is, that if both players are playing a defensive strategy, there is no way to win.  I find that many plays either don't recognize this, or just want to win so much that they fail to give in to a fair fight.  The bottom line is, the faster ship must be aggressive, or else its boring as hell.  I will explain by example:

Arilou Skiff vs Almost any other ship - There is absolutly no point of me chasing your ship when you can teleport.  Recognise this and just attack me.   If im an ur-quan, im not gonna move cuz Ill never catch you.  Just hurry up and engage.

Androsynth vs Chmrr - So many players do the whole circular flee, dropping bubbles along the way.  For some reason, so many Androsynth players have the notion that their opponent must chase them.   In a Chmrr vs Androsynth fight, it is impossible for the androsynth to hit the chmrr with slow bubbles if the chmrr plays defensive, just like how it is impossible for the chmrr to hit the androsynth if he plays defensive.  So take the initiative with the faster ship and try to make some perpendicular runs across me, rather than running away forever and turning it into a half hour battle.

Mmrnmhrm vs Chmrr - You cant hit me, I cant hit you.  Just change into the xwing now and battle, dont waste my time.

Orz vs Many - Dont sit there with your rear facing cannon hoping that im gonna chase you down, cause im not retarted.   Try getting somewhat agressive and maybe turn your gun sideways for some passby shots.  Do something other than just run away.

I guess what Im getting at is that some people dont recognize that certain ships are slower than others, and there is no point in chasing with a slow ship.  Recognise you are the faster ship and be aggressive.  Win or lose im sure you will have more fun.  I love playing with my friend as he plays like I do, but sometimes when playing online its almost a burden to play.

Also, one final note:  If your opponent is a vux and he gets like 10 limplets on you, turn your back to him.  Dont waste both your time by doing the whole rotation thing and waiting for him to hit you with annother 50 limplets.  You know you're dead already so just speed up the process.  Do the right thing and give up your back.  On the other side, if you are a vux and you get behind your opponent, end it.  dont limplet him more, just end it for god sakes.   
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countchocula86
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2007, 11:21:26 pm »

Patience, young grasshopper. Do not be so hasty.
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meep-eep
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2007, 11:23:29 pm »

Just because you're slower doesn't mean you can't get close to the enemy. There's always gravity whips.
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Squisherxxx
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 03:36:32 pm »

Yes Grav Whips do work, but there are certain scenarios where they dont, such as vs airilou or androsynth. 
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Spektrowski
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 04:58:10 pm »

Another way around... maybe, make the "emergency withdrawals" possible, like in the main game? The melee would become more, um, tactical, I think.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 05:53:23 pm »

The slower ship can be the agressor, you just need to rely more on using the environment to your advantage.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2007, 06:03:18 pm »

Patience can win you many battles.  Sometimes.
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AngusThermopyle
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2007, 08:29:41 pm »

Mmrnmhrm vs Chmrr - You cant hit me, I cant hit you.  Just change into the xwing now and battle, dont waste my time.

Someone actually tried this? Haha, the Mmrnmhrm in Y-Wing mode has 0% chance of landing a hit with all 3 Chmmr satellites intact.  Tongue
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Cedric6014
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 10:38:27 pm »

I'd like some opinions on Spathi vs Utwig.  over only had an aggression (or lack of) problem once in PVP and it was these ships - i was the Spathi and a rude twit who shall rename nameless was the Utwig.

I knew that i wouldnt last 5 seconds within his range - powerful weapons and top turn speed. So i did the usual spathi thing of tring to sneak in a nad drop butts on him from almost too longer range. This was painfully slow, however i was wearing him down. but it would have taken an hour to resolve the melee. Anyway he was boxing in waiting for me to fly within range. I refused and kept circling just in and out of range trying to hit him with the useless weapons at my disposal.

Technically if we go by the above mentioned rules - which seem to be best generally, i wasnt playing fair as i was the faster ship. however, the fight was progressing and was loath to just annihilate my spathi. Well, my opponent got tired of this, paused and demanded i attack. he unpaused and did the same thing and he paused again and launched a tirade about me ruining star control and such.
 
I'm mostly pissed about his reaction but he may well have been right about the melee protocol. Usually i get annoyed with stalemates and passive play too but i made a judgement that this was different.  Anyway, what do you all think!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 12:48:37 am by Cedric6014 » Logged

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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2007, 11:35:37 pm »

While I agree on a gamership level that stalling and stalemate tactics often don't help one to win, from a captaincy point of view, there are two important points against automatic aggression:

1.  Stalemate is not a win, that's why we call it a stalemate.  Gamership aside, if you can't win then as a captain you should at least be conserving your ship.  The limpet instances I disagree with for instance.  Fight to the end;  I hate it when people just give in like that.

2.  Some ships are designed for 'saber dancing' or stand-off tactics, despite being fast.  While I agree that the X-Form vs. Chmmr is generally impossible for the X-Form to win, the general use of this craft is to be annoying at long range, as high-speed strafing runs with the lasers is always dangerous.  Spathi, Suppox and even the Thraddash are good examples of ships that, despite being very quick, essentially stay at range and fight skirmisher style.  It's irritating, slow, and cautious fighting, and it's not wrong.  Should an androsynth be required to go blazer if the situation calls for bubble deployment?

The arilou, the last example is (and has always been) a really irritating opponent.  Some things just never change.  Grin

Before I close I should admit my own biases in favour of long, drawn out battles.  When my friends played we tended to do so either in duels (1 v 1 same ship) which were chaotic, or regular melee ( 1 v 1 - 3 v 3 starbuck balanced, but almost always  1 v 1 favorites, regardless of balance).  We had few ships and long battles, playing conservatively, patiently.  That's how I enjoy them, I guess.  Try your best and fight to the bitter end.  To me, it was very unsporting to simply give up, even when the odds were against you.  Perhaps *because* the odds were against you.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 12:07:54 am »

I kinda hate short battles, its the slighty longer ones that are more interesting.

And in an Spathi vs Utwig situation, the Spathi being the aggressor, kinda sounds stupid to me. The Spathi may be faster, but the Utwig can turn fast, so theres no way to strike from the rear. And with the Spathi in general, 'head on' is not what the ship was designed for.

Theres no reason why two ships can't "dance" for a long time, someone will make a mistake, get hit by stray shots, or smash into the planet. Theres never a reason to just give up.

Unless you're 2 Arilou that just don't wanna attack Tongue Then its kinda silly.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2007, 12:17:27 am »

I find the same problem when playing against the computer. Often times a small, fast ship will continually run away from a slow, powerful ship. In these cases, it can get very frustrating, waiting for the computer to decide to attack.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2007, 09:02:50 am »

Another quick thought... how about introducing an adjustable time limit in the Melee? And if the ships fail to destroy each other in given time, both are randomly changed for other ships from the players' fleets.
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Cedric6014
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2007, 09:12:49 am »

Not a bad though except, if you are shofixti fighting a chenjesu you could keep your distance and when the time limit occurs you make a 23 credit profit if both ships disappear. UNLESS - they both go back into the fleet.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2007, 09:42:08 am »

Arilou Skiff vs Almost any other ship - There is absolutly no point of me chasing your ship when you can teleport.  Recognise this and just attack me.   If im an ur-quan, im not gonna move cuz Ill never catch you.  Just hurry up and engage.

Squisher, I know we had a problem with an Arilou fight like this before but I think you were being a bit hypocritical. Let me explain. It was Arilou (me) against something or other and I was chain teleporting, hoping to land close to you for some easy hits. It was very time consuming and pissed you off pretty bad, but you used this exact Arilou tactic against me. Hell, I learned that tactic off you. You originally killed an Orz of mine by chain teleporting until you landed right alongside my Nemesis, then finished me off in one focused attack.

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Orz vs Many - Dont sit there with your rear facing cannon hoping that im gonna chase you down, cause im not retarted.   Try getting somewhat agressive and maybe turn your gun sideways for some passby shots.  Do something other than just run away

The range of the Orz cannon when shot in the opposite direction that you are moving is very long. I'm not firing like that because I expect you to chase me, I'm doing it so I can get you from maximum distance without placing my expensive and fragile Nemesis in harm's way. It's difficult to pelt an opponent with the damn thing, so many of these Orz vs Whatever fights drag on for a very long time. If you think I'm bad about dawdling with the matches, try playing against Stara -- he's the most annoyingly defensive player I've played against out of all of us and he had no qualms with flying directly away from me indefinitely until I made myself vulnerable.

While limpeted, I've noticed that Kohr-Ah can still kill off a careless VUX pilot so it seems fair to me that a Kohr-Ah will fight for every inch against a winning VUX by dropping blades and flamewalls.

Oh yeah, and the Androsynth bubble bath? I hate that stupid tactic but it seems like it's fair game against ships that can easily destroy your blazer form. I'm talking about the Slylandro and Arilou. I've found that you can kill a Thraddash quickly with blazer form, you just need to bubble in a loop so that your opponent gets close trying to shoot you with its blaster. Bubble again so that you only have 1 or 2 energy points, then blaze at the Thraddash. A 1 or 2 energy blazer form ends so quickly that the Torch doesn't get a chance to hit you with its afterburners unless you lunge right into its backside. This is probably a hard description to follow but it seemed pretty reliable the last time I used it.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 05:00:45 am by Shiver » Logged
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