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Author Topic: Melee Aggression  (Read 11955 times)
Razorback
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2007, 08:23:09 am »

The faster ship has a duty to try to deal damage, because the faster ship is the one that chooses whether any damage is done or not.

Of course, this goes only for situations where one ship can avoid the other (and it doesn't have to be by speed, either.)

Kor-Ah is one of the slowest ships in the game, so is the Chenjesu.  They can dictate when they do damage just fine.  I think half of the question should be how much reach your guns have, not just how fast your ship is.
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Squisherxxx
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2007, 04:12:40 pm »

Kor-Ah is one of the slowest ships in the game, so is the Chenjesu.  They can dictate when they do damage just fine.  I think half of the question should be how much reach your guns have, not just how fast your ship is.
Well I had assumed that this was implied.  But yes, no slow ship will complain when his enemy chooses to stay in the range of his guns but out of the range of his opponents guns.   This is the ideal situation for any ship, if applicable.  It forces a fast ship to engage, because contrary to the song, time is not on his side.

In addition, I am glad that most people have come to the consensus that there should be some underlying code of ethics or gamemanship involved in matches.  I for one would be happy to lose every single match as long as those matches are exciting.
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Cedric6014
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2007, 09:39:08 pm »

Right, so who's going to draft a Code of Ethics
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countchocula86
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2007, 12:25:03 am »

Rules of Fight Club

1) Never talk about fight club!!!!

2) Just avoiding is not an adequate tactic, unless combined with some type of offensive measures.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2007, 01:37:10 am »

There is absolutely no reason a Pkunk can't beat an Utwig.

Pkunk can only beat Utwig when they revive a billion times. If the awesome computer Pkunk is killing your Utwig, it's because the computer has great reflexes. You should still beat it if you pilbox right. The computer Slylandro on the other hand, that thing takes some work.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2007, 01:44:04 am »

You seem very focused on a ships merits, Shiver, and not so much on a pilots abilities. 9/10 an Utwig will gun down a Pkunk, but that doesn't mean that a very killed pilot can weave his way all around an Utwig, wearing him away.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2007, 02:29:43 am »

You seem very focused on a ships merits, Shiver, and not so much on a pilots abilities. 9/10 an Utwig will gun down a Pkunk, but that doesn't mean that a very killed pilot can weave his way all around an Utwig, wearing him away.

I'm confused. Do you actually play in UQM-Arena? Because that's the only online melee community that I know of. Surely there must be another one with players that are just as talented because I can't even imagine how people could pester me so much without having the experience to back it up.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2007, 03:08:04 am »

I play now and then, and I'm no amazing by far, heck I'm barely decent. If I was in Pkunk and you in an Utwig I'm 100% sure I would lose, but doesn't mean there are some pilots with enough skill and patient to take an Utwig down.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2007, 10:51:47 pm »

Try tiberian, he is the most skilled pkunk i know of.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2007, 01:48:04 am »

Try tiberian, he is the most skilled pkunk i know of.

Yup! I haven't had a Utwig vs Pkunk fight against him, but I did with Mhrn-Mhrhm. I beat his 2-3 incarnations with most of my crew dead.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2007, 11:43:28 am »

He can be skilled but sometimes he gets awfully clumsy. In theory, there's no way for Mmrnmhrm to beat Pkunk, but I often beat him at that match unless he gets 4+ reincarnations. He always says he played poorly in those matches afterwards, so I don't really know how good he is when he's playing well.

Given a little effort, I could probably write a Pkunk vs. Mmrnmhrm bot that a human would have no chance against unless it used the planet.
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AngusThermopyle
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2007, 04:46:56 pm »

Elvish, is it possible to write custom AI?

I’m not sure I’d want to face an unbeatable AI, but I would like to play a smarter one. The current AI's problem is that its only strategy seems to be ‘mindlessly chase your opponent and shoot’. While it shoots quite well, the chasing part is laughable and no human player worth his salt would do such a thing in most cases.

So if alternate strategies could be implemented (even basic things like ‘go for a grav whip’), that might make offline play a bit more interesting. Even better would be ship-specific strategies for the AI, which I’m sure many of us here in the forum could contribute to.

Lastly, the AI ship selection needs to change. Right now, it seems to pick a random ship every time, even when it has obvious counters in its fleet.

Don’t know if its possible, but sure would be nice…
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2007, 04:56:37 pm »

is it possible to write custom AI?
Sure. A good starting point is src/sc2code/cyborg.c.
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2007, 06:02:16 pm »

My friend has made a general purpose AI which decomposes any problem into subproblems, and then further decomposes those until the whole problem is solved.

He has applied it to games like snake and Its simply amazing to watch the strategies evolve as the number of generations grow.

It is currently written in Java, but I will take a look and see if it can be converted to C.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Melee Aggression
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2007, 08:17:47 pm »

The current AI's problem is that its only strategy seems to be ‘mindlessly chase your opponent and shoot’.
It behaves differently with Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm, and maybe some others that I've missed.

It also has some very consistent stupidities; for instance, if you charge straight towards it in most matchups, it turns around instead of taking you on. (This isn't the most precise description, you really have to be familiar with the AI.)

Also, it takes almost no consideration of what the enemy ship is like. There are a few flags that designate differences between ships, but it'd be more effecient to write AI for particular matchups that it would be to make the AI generally intelligent. It currently doesn't understand particular special abilities of enemies at all, except for a few notable exceptions (point defense comes to mind. But it thinks Utwig have point defense.)

So if alternate strategies could be implemented (even basic things like ‘go for a grav whip’), that might make offline play a bit more interesting. Even better would be ship-specific strategies for the AI, which I’m sure many of us here in the forum could contribute to.
I'll consider trying to improve (or probably, more like, rewrite) the AI... the code is pretty bad right now though, so it might be more difficult than I'd like to deal with.
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