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Author Topic: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game  (Read 37232 times)
Valaggar
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2007, 03:26:51 pm »

I suppose you can't use multiple attacks in one turn? But some weapons in UQM have a higher rate of fire than others. The boardgame Arilou laser would be too weak if used just one time per turn.
I think you should also add a "Rate of Fire" value to actions, so you have, say, 10 RT points per turn, you can for example shoot 5 Supox corrobules for 2 RT points each in each turn, if you have enough battery.
Plus, shots that miss should hit targets beyond the intended target.
Arilou Jump: It is too cheap. 1 point is the same cost as of the laser's! Come on! In UQM it's much more expensive.
Earthling PD: Should be unable to miss -like in the game-, but also should hit asteroids when triggered.
Chenjesu&Kohr-Ah Main: should reduce PILOT while in use, because it's harder to maneouvre while  holding the fire button.

And the ship icons - I hope you'll use hi-res versions, not? You can use some graphics from the Graphics Enhancement Thread.

Plus, the Pkunk reincarnation toss is too undetailed. From what height are you required to throw it? And consider the mess it would create if it hits another piece!
I'd make it that way: Pick an enemy ship and roll a d6 to determine direction. Jump in that direction a CERTAIN number of hexes (say from 6 to 12, choose the number BEFORE rolling the direction dice). Put the Fury there, reincarnated. This way, it adds to the game's strategy.
And the insults: If you have more than one Fury, I suppose you must say one insult for each one, no?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 03:33:06 pm by Valaggar » Logged
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2007, 03:52:46 pm »

Have to run, I'll examine your comments in detail later.  But check out the description for Arilou and other ships.  They have a Rapid Fire descriptor that allows them to fire unlimited times in a turn, as long as they have BATTERY.

Reincarnation shouldn't HAVE strategy.  It's completely random in the game.  Should be here, too.  Just for fun, to say.
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2007, 03:58:39 pm »

Also, jump isn't too cheap (you can use it about as many times in a row as in the game), the laser is in fact too expensive.  But since the damage has been upped to 1/2 a crew block a hit (roughly 2 crew in the original game) it evens out.
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Valaggar
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2007, 04:17:18 pm »

That leaves the
1. Shots that miss should hit targets beyond the intended target.
2. Earthling PD: Should be unable to miss -like in the game-, but also should hit asteroids when triggered.
3. Chenjesu&Kohr-Ah Main: should reduce PILOT while in use, because it's harder to maneouvre while  holding the fire button.
4. The ship icons - I hope you'll use hi-res versions, not? You can use some graphics from the Graphics Enhancement Thread.
5. Plus, the Pkunk reincarnation toss is too undetailed. From what height are you required to throw it? And consider the mess it would create if it hits another piece!
6. The insults: If you have more than one Fury, I suppose you must say one insult for each one, no?
7. Multiple ship battles - canonically, your game has these, doesn't it? (Question important especially if somebody/you is/are going to make a program for this boardgame)
8. I think that the Androsynth bubbles should create tokens, because in the game it is possible to create a so-called "bubble bath". Short-lived bubbles, of course, proportional with the ones in UQM.

questions open for answering.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 04:20:31 pm by Valaggar » Logged
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2007, 05:40:22 pm »

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Another example, same ships as above, except that this time, the Dreadnought launches a fighter which manages to get into a hex adjacant to my Cruiser. Now according to the rules for fighters, it should automatically deal damage without a pilot roll. But am I still able to avoid this by using a reflex action to shoot it down? Or do I have to wait for my turn (and take damage that no half competent Cruiser pilot would ever suffer in UQM) before I can fry the fighter with an explicit attack action?

For the sake of simplicity all "Automatic Hit" attacks do not allow reflex actions.

This bothers me on some level. Perhaps fighters should have their own separate attack roll instead (something very high, like a d12, since it is realistically impossible to dodge their shots)? Then again... Eh, I guess I'd be willing to chalk this one up to game balance. Still, it just seems wrong, somehow.

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The idea is so you can deal with an easy 10 most of the time, but the system changes to "out of 20" for truly minor hits.  Doing math, this is awkward.  In the actual game, each ship will have a sheet with ten boxes, each divided in half.  You mark off CREW by filling in boxes.  It's quite easy, even the half ones.  Syreen should read "Cannot reduce below 1/2 crew"  You shouldn't take it as half a crewman but half a crew "block" which has several crew in it.

Somehow, it seems easier (to me, at least) to simply start by doubling all those values. It doesn't change anything (and would allow slightly more realistic damage scaling in some cases), and there's no "half-crewman" weird logic. Then again, if I were in your shoes, I'm sure I would be trying to work with the same crew/battery scales and values as in UQM, so take this as you will.

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Ilwrath: I'm surprised the Avenger has no reflex actions, since both of its functions (the cloak especially, though I can't even describe the huge variety of projectiles the AI has shot down with that flamethrower over the years) seem well suited for this purpose.
Once someone fires, it's too late to cloak.  The attack will hit (or not) whether you're visible or not.  the aim has been made.  You are where you are.  Flamethrower is noted though.

The examples that spring to mind immediately involve homing weapons of all stripes: Cruiser missiles, Eluder BUTT missiles, etc. Since most of these are launched from rather long ranges, it makes a lot of sense to cloak in order to throw off the tracking. Granted, this would do no good against direct fire weapons, so perhaps a special reflex against homing weapons?

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Utwig: The Jugger cannot fire its main gun while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate (or absorb) damage from planetary collisions.
Waiting on planet rules.   As for shield v. gun...I assumed the shield could be put up, put down, and guns fired all in the course of one turn.  No gameplay mention needed.

The thing that bothers me about the wording for the shield is that:

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After its activation, Jugger ignores all DAMAGE until its next turn.

The key phrase being "until its next turn," implying that if the first thing you do is activate your shields, they would remain active for the entire length of your turn, and the enemy's turn as well.

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Yehat: Like the Jugger, the Terminator cannot fire while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate damage from planet collisions. Also, it is worth mentioning that under the current rules, a Terminator can shield indefinitely, effectively reducing almost any battle to a stalemate.
Unless he uses all of his firepower.  If he attacks (which eventually, anyone will out of boredom) the Terminator will eventually be forced to choose between fighting, recharging, and shielding.  Also, if the shield is used as a reflex, it's not guaranteed.

I'm more concerned with a different scenario. The Terminator has already depleted its entire battery in attacks, and has the single point left in reserve. By shielding indefinitely (by simply raising shields at the start of each of its turns), the Terminator can force an opponent in what should be a superior tactical position to back away and allow the Terminator to regenerate as much battery power as it likes. It's not particularly sportsmanlike, but using this strategy and with the rules written as they are, there is currently no possible way to defeat the Terminator (as it can shield immediately if the enemy is in range, negating any ability they have to inflict damage); the best one can hope for is a stalemate.

Incidentally, I forgot to mention a few things you left out of the Melnorme's EM pulse description. First, it cannot be stopped by shielding against it. Second (and far more important), it disables the target's SPECIAL while its influence persists.

The record sheets look very nice, but as Valaggar mentioned, they would look even better if you used the ship designs from the graphic enhancement thread. I suspect that the authors (especially not yourself, I imagine) of those images would not have any qualms about giving you permission to use them for this project, plus it could rekindle efforts to get high-res versions of all the rest of the ships done.

Something else came to mind when Valaggar mentioned Androsynth bubbles leaving tokens behind: What are the rules on stacking tokens? Especially in somewhat ambiguous cases where there would be no logical detruction, such as limpets from opposing ships ending up on the same hex, or multiple friendly tokens of various types winding up on the same hex.

Oh, and Valaggar? About those Pkunk questions? Don't think too hard about them: It's a game, and the Pkunk are written to be especially fun to play. Try not to take them too seriously. Smiley
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Valaggar
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2007, 06:00:38 pm »

Yes, the Jugger shields should be an exclusively reflex action.

The Pkunk: Agreed. But about the insults... I think you should say a different insult each turn. And when you run out of them, you're done, at least until you reincarnate.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2007, 09:11:29 pm by Valaggar » Logged
Elvish Pillager
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2007, 09:54:22 pm »

3. Chenjesu&Kohr-Ah Main: should reduce PILOT while in use, because it's harder to maneouvre while  holding the fire button.
I've never had trouble maneuvering while holding the weapon key. Of course, it's hard to maneuver with Chenjesu and Kohr-Ah in the first place... Tongue
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2007, 02:49:49 am »

Okay, fully back now.  Let me try to cover everything.

1. Low-Res Art - Geeze, settle down kiddies.  It's a mockup, what do you take me for? ^_~  I could have dug up the hi-res art, but it's A) aliased against a black BG and would be horrific on white and B) still too low-res for proper printing.  To bother using it now would be a waste of time.  I'll have professionally commissioned images done when and if I do this thing...it was just to give you guys an idea.

2. No more comments on the Earthling PD.  I realize the mechanic is broken in uncountable ways.  I will revisit it before I update the rules.

3. As Pillager mentioned, I feel no need to reduce Kohr-ah or Chenjesu Pilot.  I should however make notes that they can't use their special.

4.  Pkunk reincarnation: Point taken.  I'll revise it (or change it, perhaps tossing it with abandon is a bit TOO silly.)

5. Pkunk insults...Yes, more insults the better!  Redundancy would be frowned upon, but I don't think digging into dictionaries would be much fun.

6. Multiship battles: I have written the rules to not EXCLUDE the possibility.  But I haven't actually weighed the possibilities much.

7. Androsynth Bubble mechanics were made out of ignorance.  I found out after some testing that they work much differently than I thought.  Will be corrected.

8. Reflex Actions will now be allowed against "Automatic hit" weapons.  I just need to update the rules with ATTACK dice for these attacks for comparison.

9. Not budging on the CREW issue.  Doubling would be a senseless endeavor.  Nothing would change, just the numbers you're using.  (And would involve oddball jumps.  No ships will do 3, 5, 7, etc. damage)  As you said, you'd prefer using actual CREW values, which is a bit opposite of my whole intent. Smiley  Not wrong, per se, just different.

10.  Ilwrath cloaking is now a Reflex action, but only against weapons with the Homing descriptor.  You'll notice non-token weapons that home (BUTT missiles, the Transformer's missile pair) are just treated as weapons with a wide arc.  I will need to think about how to classify them as homing weapons, too, since they don't follow Homing rules.

11. Shielding...similar strategies are available in the actual game.  A faster ship can, theoretically, run forever, and this option is available in the game as well.  I'm tempted by making it a "reflex only" action as suggested...but I think shield ships should be able to play defensively, if they want.  Perhpaps double cost if not used as a reflex? (ie. holding up the shield longer)

Think that covers everything.  Let me know if I'm wrong.  But just to explain future tokens I may post...any graphical tokens, ships, and maps will be TEMPORARY for playtesting purposes.  Grin
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Valaggar
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2007, 08:33:35 am »

Quote from: Elvish Pillager
I've never had trouble maneuvering while holding the weapon key. Of course, it's hard to maneuver with Chenjesu and Kohr-Ah in the first place... 

This really depends upon the keys you use (I'm not referring to keyjamming). But anyway, I think that the PILOT reduction while shooting would be a good idea for balancing the Chen' & Kohr'. Kohr-Ahs are a bit too powerful, and Chenjesu would be very good in multiship battles due to their long range.

Plus, in  1v1 ship battles, do you plan to include screen wrapping?

And about shields: With an Utwig Jugger you could, in UQM, shield by mistake, for example when a Cruiser shots intentionally right next to you, but careful not to hit you. This way, you shield, but your energy doesn't replenish since you aren't really hit.
Additionally, shields don't work against laser weapons as a reflex weapon. About lasers you said that "Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.". However, in reality, you could, if you use the shield as a non-reflex action, defend against incoming lasers or at least cause the enemy not to shoot at you. (not to forget that ships shielded for the duration of a turn by using the shield as a non-reflex action will never be attacked in the boardgame, so it is an ability more useful in multiship.)

Ilwraths: As Draxas mentioned, the AI has shot a wide variety of projectiles with its flamethrower during the years. A human player could do the same. Flamethrowers should be reflex weapons.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2007, 12:57:44 pm »

3. As Pillager mentioned, I feel no need to reduce Kohr-ah or Chenjesu Pilot.  I should however make notes that they can't use their special.
Actually, Chenjesu and Kohr-Ah can use their specials just fine while holding a shot. It's a bit of a clumsy move, of course.
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2007, 01:40:18 pm »

How will "Blazer hits a DOGI" condition be treated?
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2007, 03:55:58 pm »

I'll make a note to make the Flamethrower a reflex too, but only from the front arc.

Laser is a convoluted descriptor meant to read "Cannot be destroyed by reflex actions that destroy weapons"  ie. Flamethrower or PD Laser.  Teleports, Shields, and the like work just fine.

I thought about "faking" the jugger, but I assumed that was a tactic that worked mostly against the computer.  If it really is a decent p v p strategy, I'll start thinking how to include it.

As for the blazer/dogi glitch, I won't acknowledge it.  Didn't UQM fix that?

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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2007, 04:03:24 pm »

Another small addition about Androsynth - when battery ends for Blazer form, the ship stops completely.
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Valaggar
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2007, 06:05:59 pm »

Quote from: Clay
I thought about "faking" the jugger, but I assumed that was a tactic that worked mostly against the computer.  If it really is a decent p v p strategy, I'll start thinking how to include it.
It works for human players, if they are more like newbs. And even more experienced players. Anyway, normally, you would destroy the nuke with the energy spears, but sometimes you may miss and, out of imprudence, activate the shield in vain. Especially if the nuke manages to fly VERY close to you. So, this thing could be made like this: Shots that made it to the Utwig and miss it have a chance to still be shielded by the Utwig, but a small chance.

You still didn't answer the following questions:

1.
Quote from: Spektrowski
Another small addition about Androsynth - when battery ends for Blazer form, the ship stops completely. 

2. In  1v1 ship battles, do you plan to include screen wrapping?
3. I think that the PILOT reduction while shooting would be a good idea for balancing the Chen' & Kohr'. Kohr-Ahs are a bit too powerful, and Chenjesu would be very good in multiship battles due to their long range.
4. Laser weapons CAN'T be defended against by Teleports, Shields or anything, since they hit immediately. Probably you should make it like this: The Teleport/Shield/Umgah Antimatter Cone defend against lasers only after hit once or twice, since they can't react faster than light.
5. Shots that miss should hit targets beyond the intended target.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 06:17:30 pm by Valaggar » Logged
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Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2007, 06:21:17 pm »

About Utwig shielding... Once an Utwig turns on its shields, he/she doesn't avoid the shots, but DESIRES to be hit and recharge the batteries. So I thought up this (if I'm getting the game mechanics correct):
Shields are turned on in the Reflex phase and last for the whole turn. A Piloting roll is used to determine whether the Utwig pilot manages to be hit by projectiles (success - the ship is hit and the shields are recharged, failure - the ship is missed and one turn's worth of battery capacity is lost).
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