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Author Topic: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?  (Read 18273 times)
Valaggar
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2007, 03:38:36 pm »

Yeah... but the one who wrote the manual wasn't involved in the making of the game too.
So he didn't mean to introduce an unknown race. He was just misidentifying the existing races' psychology.
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2007, 05:42:48 pm »

While Paul and/or Fred may not have written the entire manaul, they certainly were involved in the creation of it. They at least have OK'ed it.
As for introducing a new race, they may just have wanted to keep it a mystery. Just like who created the mother ark, which similarly may or may not be a new race.
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2007, 01:02:16 am »

Also, a Cruiser can easily defeat an Ur-Quan.

I don't think so. An Ur-Quan will pulverise an Earthling like it pulverises most other things. The Ur-Quan is faster. it will take a few hits but it will catch the earthing soon enough.
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Valaggar
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2007, 08:42:56 am »

Ur-Quan faster?! Tongue
The Cruiser accelerates slowlier, yes, but its maximum speed is greater.
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Valaggar
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2007, 08:47:33 am »

Oops... just tested it, and you're right.
Only in SC1 was the Cruiser faster.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2007, 12:35:38 pm »

The cruiser accelerates slower, but can reach a speed just as fast as the Ur-Quan. By this tactic, a human player can easily defeat an AI Dreadnought.

However, in human vs human melee, the Ur-Quan are decent at gravity whipping, while the earthlings are awful at dodging gravity whips.
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Valaggar
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2007, 01:11:14 pm »

Yeah, you're right.
In fact, the max speed of a Cruiser is not even equal to that of a Dreadnought - it's close, but still slower.
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2007, 12:16:13 pm »

I have an idea for this, but I didn't read thru the WHOLE post, don't know if it's been said...

The Tobermoon heads out
Gets attacked by Androsynth, Tobermoon surrenders after getting deep burns from the acid bubbles
The Androsynth take the ship, along with the crew remaining alive
They begin some IDF research in a zero-G environment (in a captured ship that they didn't pay to build, so they can be careless with it)
and something takes the crew of the Tobermoon, be they Androsynth or prisoner human, causing the ship to become derelict
The Guardian, once it noticed the disappearance of all life on the Cruiser, chickens out and heads home

How's that fit?
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Valaggar
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2007, 02:33:37 pm »

No offense, but you miss a point in the Androsynth backstory: they used some Precursor artifacts found on Alpha Lalande for IDF. They wouldn't have risked such valuable equipment on a Guardian.
And I'm not very sure if the timeline is right (if the Androsynth hadn't been already snagged by Orz).

Nay, Ur-Quans are what the ones who wrote the manual wanted to be the answer - they even hint it by having Zelnick support the Dreadnoughts explanation. The problem is that this doesn't fit perfectly with the Ur-Quans' personality, with the stats of the Cruiser/Dreadnought etc.
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #69 on: May 07, 2007, 02:50:30 am »

Meh, perhaps they had imitated some of the tech.  I was mostly focused on the missing bodies.
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2007, 05:25:33 am »

Just thought I'd add in an interesting thing that I've learned in this last semester at school. Although I don't think it was the Androsynth, I'll give their proponents some support - acid burns. Drop some strong acid (like a nanostripper) on a paper towel and a nice little black burn mark appears, almost like someone took a hot match and singed it. The first time I saw this I was quite suprised. So anyways, the deep burns could have been caused by the acid bubbles of a Guardian, and not necessarily by the blazer-mode. Food for thought. And now back to the abyss...
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2007, 07:03:03 am »

I think like this:

The androsynth equipment just allowed the androsynth to see for the first time.  If it was only the equipment that made you vulnerable, only the Synth on the playground would've been fish food.  They're all gone though, and somehow I doubt every last one of them came running to see what wiped out the homeworld, especially after returning patrol craft started getting eaten too.

The impression I always got about it was that simply knowing that the Interdimensional soul eaters exist - or at least, knowing some of the specifics - was enough to allow you to *SEE*.  Once you can see, you'll be seen.  And then you die.

So, patrol craft returning home when the whole planet is getting eaten by ghosts isn't so likely.  Getting status and information from a desperate homeworld though, not realizing that it was knowing that made you vulnerable....I can see that happening.

Perhaps the Orz weren't so full of evil intentions when they told us to stop asking about the Androsynth.  Perhaps they knew that if we found out what really happened to them, we would *SEE*.  And that would be it for us.


What's this got to do with the Tobermoon?  Well, encountering a synth in synth space isn't that unusual, but you'd expect them to take at least some damage, either acid or blazer, to the hull.  But if they win, they'll almost certainly scavenge the wreckage for parts.  If that wreckage happens to contain an intact transmission log, and they should read about the IDF ghosts in it.....
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Valaggar
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2007, 10:50:26 am »

It seems that there are explanations much more likely than the clumsy Ur-Quan explanation. Good!

Quote
What about Arilou coming and repairing the Tobermoon after the combat for you to use it? A clumsy explanation, but the only one so far.

The Arilou seem perfectly content to allow humanity to languish on the surface of worlds, rather than explore space. After all, if all humans are concentrated on a particular world or worlds, then they're much easier to keep tabs on, and it lessens or eliminates the possibility of discovering something that could lead down the road to ruin that the Arilou seem to have such a vested interest in avoiding; just look at what happened to the Androsynth. So I can't figure why the Arilou would bother with the Tobermoon; they more likely would have simply ignored it, expecting it to remain derelict indefinitely, and inaccessible to the colonists on Unzervalt.
Then why did they visit Unzervalt? If they were motivated by the factors you evoke, Draxas, then they would have modified The Captain so that he doesn't leave Unzervalt, not in such a way that he develops tremendous Precursor technology skills, such as the capability of using the Prec. computer of the starship factory at Unzervalt or repairing the Ultron without knowing how it looked initially.
They want to protect us from earthly dangers too. They knew that the Kohr-Ah were approaching and acted accordingly.

The Keel-Verezy explanation is good too.

And there is the Androsynth explanation, clumsy too.
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2007, 05:22:23 pm »

I'm enigmated by that mystery of this topic as well.
Imho - it must be somehow connected to the Androsynths and their IDF experiments, anyway... For Vela system and Vulpeculae constellation are rather closely related... And the sympthoms are very similar...

Btw, concerning those burns on the Tobermoon's hull.. I still don't know the way Orz mariners get inside the ship they boarding. Are they burning the hull completely to get inside (in this case the depressurization should be really a trouble to the attacked ship, and it would lose a lot more crew!), or they get inside by means of  "warping into", being parts of supposingly 4(or higher)-dimensional creature, so it's easy for them to "slide" inside a close 3-dimensional object along the 4th dimension axis...

And the other question is - how do they kill the enemy crew? With natural/artificial weapons built-in into their exoskeletons? Or by other means (like *pulling* the victims out of this world, using the "other parts" of their "upper-dimensional body", like they did to the Androsynths)? In the late case there will be no bodies left...
And in such a case might the burns on the outer hull of Tobermoon be inflicted by the Orz cannons?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2007, 05:24:07 pm by void dweller » Logged

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Valaggar
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Re: What happened to the Tobermoon in Oort's Cloud?
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2007, 05:48:13 pm »

ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!
Dimensions in Star Control are NOT the dimensions we know from geometry and physics, i.e. not width, length and height. They are REALMS OF EXISTENCE. Read http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/Dimension

Quote from: void dweller
Imho - it must be somehow connected to the Androsynths and their IDF experiments, anyway... For Vela system and Vulpeculae constellation are rather closely related... And the sympthoms are very similar...
Seems likely, of course.

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Btw, concerning those burns on the Tobermoon's hull.. I still don't know the way Orz mariners get inside the ship they boarding.
Good point! Orz may have been the wrong-doer. Maybe he had already displaced the Androsynth, since they began the IDF experiments "over 10 years ago" and we don't know how long they lasted. The Tobermoon launched on August 11, 2134, so 20 years ago, but still... deep burns are the way the Orz marines get into enemy ships - they burn holes into their hulls (see SC2 manual). And it's clear that they mainly damage living beings, since they board the ship, thus allowing them increased accuracy. The bodies can then be evacuated, if they hadn't been completely disintegrated by the marines' weapons.

Quote from: void dweller
And the other question is - how do they kill the enemy crew? With natural/artificial weapons built-in into their exoskeletons?
Artificial weapons. *Snagging* doesn't make sense, as it would deal much more damage and, also, could be used from *below*, not necessarily TrueSpace.
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