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Author Topic: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion  (Read 7401 times)
Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 07:07:45 pm »

Quote from: countchocula86
Well if we look at the Utwig, when they take a hit, their energy goes up, so its fair to say they absorb the energy. Now if science fiction has taught me anything, its that if you charge enough energy into something it'll eventually 'splode!
They could dump the excess energy.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 08:58:10 pm »

Maybe the shields generate a lot of heat, and it's just too hard to design computers and sensors that keep working despite the heat.

Plus, it's not very useful - and thus, not worth it - since most of the enemies are too Awesome to fake out normal-skill pilots. Cheesy
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Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2007, 01:32:34 pm »

Ah, the computers can't operate in hot temperatures, but the shipmates can? It would be just the reverse in reality.
As to facing just Awesome AI opposition - you'd better be prepared for anything, who knows when an invincible Elvish Pillager team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr shows up?
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Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2007, 01:39:08 pm »

Additionally, we were talking about point B. now - how can shields be overcome.
I would incline to the hypothesis that a large quantity of kinetic energy can pass through them, since that is the case with planets AND Blazers. Also, the shield is named an "absorbtion shield", implying that it absorbs ray weapons primarily.
However, it absorbs very well Kohr-Ah spinning blades too. What's the difference? Simply - the spinblades are NOT concentrated in a single point, so they are not taken for their total damage, since it is dispersed in multiple locations.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 03:12:43 pm by Valaggar » Logged
Elvish Pillager
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2007, 10:00:11 pm »

Ah, the computers can't operate in hot temperatures, but the shipmates can? It would be just the reverse in reality.
Not mainly the computers, but the sensors. The crew holds can be cooled, but the ship would have to have some kind of electronic devices on the outside to detect incoming shot. It might not be affordable to have extra coolers for all such devices. The captain can use windows in the ship, and mirrors, to see incoming shot, but computers don't have that kind of skill.

I would incline to the hypothesis that a large quantity of kinetic energy can pass through them, since that is the case with planets AND Blazers.
Blazers don't go through the shield, they just don't get absorbed by the shield.

What theory can explain the difference between shots (blocked and absorbed), Blazers (blocked but not absorbed), and planets (neither blocked nor absorbed)? Or should Blazer vs. shield be written off as a gameplay quirk.

Also, the shield is named an "absorbtion shield", implying that it absorbs ray weapons primarily.
I don't see how "absorbtion shield" implies anything more than that it absorbs stuff in general, especially when the gameplay directly contradicts your interpretation. The shield is notably weaker against ray weapons (because it's impossible to react to them.)
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Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2007, 03:53:51 pm »

Quote from: Elvish Pillager
The captain can use windows in the ship, and mirrors, to see incoming shot, but computers don't have that kind of skill.
Hm? Are you sure? Especially on a black background. And of course, since it is also the computer that simulates the battle.  Wink

Quote from: Elvish Pillager
What theory can explain the difference between shots (blocked and absorbed), Blazers (blocked but not absorbed), and planets (neither blocked nor absorbed)?
What about...
The shield can block attacks up to the power N. But it can absorb energy only until power N-m. Since there are two separate systems in fact: Blocking shield AND Recharging shield.

Quote from: Elvish Pillager
I don't see how "absorbtion shield" implies anything more than that it absorbs stuff in general, especially when the gameplay directly contradicts your interpretation. The shield is notably weaker against ray weapons (because it's impossible to react to them.)
Impossibility to react doesn't mean that the shields don't absorb them well - it's related to the captain.
Also, I know that in-game there's no difference between kinetic and beam weapons absorbtion&defense (save for Blazers&planets), but that's because their powers are too small.
In fact, the shield probably can block beam weapons up to power N*m, let's say, but kinetics only till N.

(N, m are rational numbers, m>1)
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2007, 10:05:25 pm »

What about...
The shield can block attacks up to the power N. But it can absorb energy only until power N-m. Since there are two separate systems in fact: Blocking shield AND Recharging shield.
Most of the time, the Blazer does more damage per hit than the planet.
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Zeep-Eeep
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2007, 10:45:56 pm »

Almost everything in UQM is manual control, why would the shields be any different? Sure
you could argue a computer could control shields better than a living being, but you're
ignoring tatics. Sometimes it makes sense to take a hit now, rather than raise shields. Sometimes
you might want to raise shields where there is no threat for some reason. I'm sure anyone
who has fought against a Blade or Ur-Quan fighters will understand the benefits of manual shielding.

As for the Drone's retro-thrust, I think that's to allow the Drone to retreat quickly. It
might be nice to have a forward-motion one too (I know I'd use it) but retreatnig
can be very useful. Get out of the way, while the enemy fires, then attack. Har har...

Ships with shields take damage when they run into the planet. That makes sense. The
ship itself doesn't take damage so much as it just gets really hot in the atmosphere. A ship
can run into a meteor at an amazing pace and nothing happens, but meteors don't
have atmosphere. A ship speeding through air can get a lot hotter than any FRIED. The
crew gets cooked. I'm not sure how this applies to the Mycon, perhaps they explode seedless
in high temperatures.
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Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2007, 07:13:44 am »

About Zeep-Eeep's explanation of planetary collision - yes, but as Elvish Pillager said, the Blazer deals more damage.
Also, high temperatures are still damage, as you can tell from the FRIED, for example. So they should be absorbed - unless they are too high, which fits in my theory.
Anyway, the collisions with the planet are quite abstract, as you can tell from how you... bump back from it.

Additionally, hot temps are "beam" weapons, meaning that they would get better absorbed by the shield, but... nope. They aren't. But, as I said, collisions with the planet are abstract, so they shouldn't be taken into account as proof for any theory.

The retro-thrust is to allow the Drone to retreat? It's always used to attack, in fact. I think it's about their psychology, not tactics.

As for manual shielding - sometimes it's better, sometimes not. When it's not, it's better left to computers.

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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2007, 11:29:16 am »

hot temps are "beam" weapons
o_O

O_o

o_O

O_o
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Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2007, 12:27:41 pm »

Why are you surprised? It's a similar thing - anyway more similar to this than to a kinetic weapon.
And as I have said, we can't take collisions with the planet into account due to the fact that they are so abstract.

And the fact that the shield could crumble after being hit very many times - it is debatable, of course, but it's not a central part of my theory.

But its better capability of defending against beam weapons seems logical, as that would be easier for a "shield" (and it's something found in many sci-fi universes).
Also, the shield can't be omnipotent - some energies must be too high for it. Such as the Sa-Matra's main weapon (annihilation toroids) - no, not those comets you get to block in the final battle, but those toroids that the Chmmr had spoken of.
Also, as we can see from the Blazer, the absorbtion capability of the shield is smaller than its blocking capability.
I wouldn't say that the Blazer is a bug. After all, I haven't either said that persistent QuasiSpace portals from your Spawner are bugs... since they present such interesting possibilities.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2007, 01:09:47 pm »

Also, the shield can't be omnipotent - some energies must be too high for it.
Model for shield: create a wormhole, as it were, between one side of the ship and some sub-dimension, from which energy can be safely extracted. With this model, there is no reason a more powerful attack would be able to break the shield.

It also explains why the ship can't shoot while shielding.
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Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2007, 01:52:00 pm »

That's what I thought some time ago too... but a portal so small and created with such accuracy would need advanced IDF technology - and if the Utwig had it, they would have long been killed by IDF parasites.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2007, 02:05:40 pm »

It doesn't have to be the same kind of dimension the Orz use. It also doesn't have to involve knowledge of the _theory_ (it could be that some sort of concentration of matter creates this effect, no one knows why)
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Valaggar
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Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2007, 03:40:59 pm »

Your theory is much crazier than mine, though. Of course, just like the theory with Tobermoon entering a time loop in Oort Cloud, it works.
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