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Author Topic: Star control star gravity?  (Read 6582 times)
Death 999
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Re: Star control star gravity?
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2007, 09:40:51 pm »

The Talana quote is explained simply: they sped up using a powered gravitational slingshot, what's wrong with this?

That if you have a drive fast enough to be relevant to these battles, normal gravity is so totally irrelevant as to be... well, irrelevant.

That's what's wrong with it. There would be no slingshot in that slingshot.

As for wrapping, yeah. Great. That's something that's not included. But if we're doing the half-HS at all, then we get tiny-ized planets for free, so why not toss 'em in?

I agree about half and quarter, actually, now that you point it out.

As for orbiting, I'm not sure what you're getting at.


EP: Two answers:
1) Neither of those can happen in story mode. I would count that as non-canon, and can be very readily dismissed as SC1-specific creations never meant to fight each other. So, Chenjesu, if dialog says they're psi-immune, are. You might even take it to the extent that Mmrnmhrm would not necessarily be psi-vulnerable, even if not specifically mentioned in dialog.

2) those Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm ships could be mostly crewed by Shofixti.
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Valaggar
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Re: Star control star gravity?
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2007, 03:07:14 pm »

Quote from: Death 999
As for orbiting, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
You may laugh at me, but I forgot too what I meant with that. Anyway, it wasn't a valid argument, for sure.

Quote from: Death 999
That if you have a drive fast enough to be relevant to these battles, normal gravity is so totally irrelevant as to be... well, irrelevant.

That's what's wrong with it. There would be no slingshot in that slingshot.
Not exactly. Depending on the specific stats of your ship - especially slower ships may use G.W.-s.
Of course, there's the problem with the absence of screen-wrapping, which will cause your ship to speed AWAY from the battle.

An argument for you: The Flagship's engines (and engine trails for all ships) are red, like HyperSpace.

Quote from: Death 999
As for wrapping, yeah. Great. That's something that's not included. But if we're doing the half-HS at all, then we get tiny-ized planets for free, so why not toss 'em in?
Yeah, it seems that we must include everything if we want the theory to be self-consistent.
How sad that this does not explain the abstract planet landings - you surely can't use HS tech on planets, otherwise everything would be much different from what we know (living on planets would be a chaos).

Quote from: Death 999
2) those Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm ships could be mostly crewed by Shofixti.
Especially in that Spathi vs Mmrnmhrm scenario, where only Mmrnmhrm are available.
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Death 999
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Re: Star control star gravity?
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2007, 06:09:30 pm »

Not exactly. Depending on the specific stats of your ship - especially slower ships may use G.W.-s.

Sure, ships that are roughly 100,000 times slower than the other ships.

Of course, there's the problem with the absence of screen-wrapping, which will cause your ship to speed AWAY from the battle.

I do not see that the battle has a fixed location IRT planets, really.

An argument for you: The Flagship's engines (and engine trails for all ships) are red, like HyperSpace.

 Grin

Yeah, it seems that we must include everything if we want the theory to be self-consistent.

No, we need to include everything if we want the theory to explain everything.

Now, special HS could end up being like the battle cubes in X-1999: once it's been made, you can't get out except alone (or, in SC2, with an escape unit). And it only takes one of you to make it.
But I think that's excessive.

Especially in that Spathi vs Mmrnmhrm scenario, where only Mmrnmhrm are available.

Do you mean 'except'? Anyway, do the Syreen fight the Mmrnmhrm in that scenario?  Oh, right. They don't do that in SC1.
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Valaggar
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Re: Star control star gravity?
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2007, 06:38:35 pm »

Quote from: Death 999
Sure, ships that are roughly 100,000 times slower than the other ships.
Well, indeed. Maybe gravity has a special effect upon ships in quarter-HS?
This way we can stick with the theory, while confirming only high speeds in star systems and (especially) gravity whips.

Quote from: Death 999
I do not see that the battle has a fixed location IRT planets, really.
I MEANT: Group of Non ships, group of Mycon ships. They grow turgid, Juffo-Wup requires that Non must be turned into either Juffo-Wup or Void and all that stuff, and violent action ensues. Mycons use a gravity whip to speed themselves up. If they speed themselves up towards the Non, (and albeit Juffo-Wup flows through time and space and cannot be stopped by mere energy blasts) they run in their own plasmoids and are very fine targets too. If they speed up in any other direction, the Non simply have to wait for the Mycon to depart so as they are no longer threats.

But I just reviewed Talana's account of the ambush - it seems that the Mycon tactic was simply to use the gravity whip to get out of orbit as fast as possible. This fits the non-special-HS (standard) explanation, I think.

Quote from: Death 999
Do you mean 'except'? Anyway, do the Syreen fight the Mmrnmhrm in that scenario?  Oh, right. They don't do that in SC1.
"Especially" was meant to be ironical.

Apropos, Syreen MAY fight Mmrnmhrm and Chenjesu in SC1: In Practice mode, you MAY select ships that belong to the opposite side as well.
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Re: Star control star gravity?
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2007, 06:22:16 pm »

Quote from: Death 999
Sure, ships that are roughly 100,000 times slower than the other ships.
Well, indeed. Maybe gravity has a special effect upon ships in quarter-HS?

1) upon recalculation, I was exaggerating. Lop of two orders of magnitude, but the point stands.

2) that was the reason I put it forward in the first place: gravity is so strong in HS that HS itself breaks down, so in this lesser HS, could it just pull really hard?
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Valaggar
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Re: Star control star gravity?
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2007, 05:29:47 pm »

Another argument supporting halfway-HS: Every source indicate the Vindicator as a ship of roughly 270 metres length and 44 metres height. For comparison, a Cruiser is 223.5 metres long. Then the 12 escort ships can't possibly be sticked to the Vindicator.

But, even in TS, speed is totally independent of escorts, and space is measured in slots, not size or mass - so probably there are some points in the halfway-HS bubble in which ships can be placed so that they are pulled by the Vindicator - a dodecaedron.
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