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Author Topic: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy  (Read 7179 times)
Valaggar
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The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« on: April 01, 2007, 10:39:36 am »

Based on the fact that the Kohr-Ah would travel a bit quicker since they just agnigilate everyone, they don't care about enslaving them and ensuring their loyalty, I was able to draw this map pinpointing the Ur-Quan homeworld:

Now, since the Ur-Quan arrived in our region of space through the northern edge, and the Kohr-Ah through the eastern one, I would say that the HyperSpace galaxy doesn't have arms. Otherwise, the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za and the Kohr-Ah would have met each other sooner. And they wouldn't have arrived from those directions.

Moreover, since this directions would indicate that they just circumvent the galaxy, probably the core region of the HyperSpace galaxy is empty - so the galaxy has the shape of a dough:


Moreover, since the Precursors left for the galactic core, there must be a mysterious entity right in the centre - probably detectable only with advanced technology. Or a point of IDF weakness.
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 06:09:27 pm »

Based on the fact that the Kohr-Ah would travel a bit quicker since they just agnigilate everyone,...

Until they hit someone with advanced enough tech to fight back, at which point they may be delayed.

Since the SaMatra was the prize it can be assumed that it was positioned exactly opposite the UrQuan Homework through the core and their paths were prechosen so as to be fair (IE encounters with species were weighed in and what not).

As for the core being empty, not likely. We've just never been there. But somethings there because that's where the precursors headed.
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Valaggar
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 06:31:39 pm »

Erm... the Sa-Matra travelled with the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za, you know. And when the Kzer-Za and the Kohr-Ah fought their First Doctrinal Conflict they simply split and went on opposite directions, without choosing a special place to meet again.

Though, yes, you are right, there may be some small variations due to heavier resistance in some areas. But it's, anyway, something similar... or not. In fact, I should rename the Ur-Quan "Homework" to "Mael-Num homeworld", since the First Doctrinal Conflict took place around that location, see the Ultronomicon.

Quote from: guesst
As for the core being empty, not likely. We've just never been there. But somethings there because that's where the precursors headed.
Why didn't the Ur-Quan go there? Everyone must be agnigilated/enslaved!
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2007, 06:08:00 am »

Quote from: guesst
As for the core being empty, not likely. We've just never been there. But somethings there because that's where the precursors headed.
Why didn't the Ur-Quan go there? Everyone must be agnigilated/enslaved!
Well, galactic cores are rather hostile environments. Supergiants and supernovae everywhere. And galactic edges have too less matter to support life. You'd mostly see red dwarf stars.
Every galaxy has a habitable zone at a certain distance from the core where conditions for life are optimal. If the Ur-Quan follow this path, they'll be most likely to eliminate most potential threats.
And by the way, the Ur-Quan *might* have hard time enslaving/cleansing the Precursors if they went to the core!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 06:10:13 am by Lurker » Logged

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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2007, 08:38:49 am »

Quote from: Zerg Lurker
Well, galactic cores are rather hostile environments. Supergiants and supernovae everywhere. And galactic edges have too less matter to support life. You'd mostly see red dwarf stars.
Every galaxy has a habitable zone at a certain distance from the core where conditions for life are optimal. If the Ur-Quan follow this path, they'll be most likely to eliminate most potential threats.
And by the way, the Ur-Quan *might* have hard time enslaving/cleansing the Precursors if they went to the core!
1. The galactic core of the HyperSpace Milky Way does not correspond to the one of the TrueSpace Milky Way - the stars are scrambled.
2. Every threat must be removed - no matter how small is the probability of finding it.
3. The Precursors don't live in the Galactic Core, they went there and disappeared.
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2007, 02:56:01 pm »

1. It still has the same basic form. It has a core and can be traveled around.
2. It is more efficient to eliminate more possible threats at once. Chances to find sentient life from galactic edge/core are very slim and can be time wasted. They can check them after the most of the galaxy is secured.
3. I was not fully serious on this one. That is most likely the case. But can you know for sure? What if they re-appeared or something?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 02:59:50 pm by Lurker » Logged

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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2007, 04:02:39 pm »

1. and 2. - No, I said that the stars are scrambled, so that the star systems in the core of the HyperSpace galaxy are not actually in the TrueSpace core.

As a sidenote, the Ur-Quan are known to have traveled "spinward", while the Kohr-Ah journeyed "antispinward", thus suggesting that the HyperSpace galaxy either rotates OR has arms too. Having arms seems unlikely because of the scrambling, so must we assume that the HS galaxy indeed rotates or that it is just a naming convention?
I mean, since TrueSpace rotation wouldn't matter as to HyperSpace rotation since the correspondences are rather random (if you've ever traveled through a StarFlight flux you know what I mean), this would imply that the HS-TS correspondences rotate.
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2007, 04:31:20 pm »

Do radiowaves naturally carry from TrueSpace to HyperSpace? I ask this because it is suggested in SC1 that the other species were informed of Earthlings' existance by the first radiowaves that spread to space.

If yes - we can assume that the stars can be very scrambled.
If not - we must assume that the stars close to us in HyperSpace can't be too far in TrueSpace either. I'd say that TrueSpace's relation to HyperSpace is as scrambled as HyperSpace's relation to QuasiSpace.
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 04:57:06 pm »

It can't be "yes", since you need HyperWave Casters to use HyperWaves.

It may be "no", but remember that the Ur-Quan have an empire spanning half a galaxy, so who knows how close may be the Ur-Quan stars in TrueSpace, even if everything is scrambled.
But no - they would learn the TrueSpace position, but not the HyperSpace one.
Also, they won't need to learn of us, they anyway circle the galaxy enslaving everyone.

I'd rather say that this is a Star Control 1/2 discrepancy.
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The Size (Unit=the size of our region) of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2007, 09:35:04 pm »

Or, otherwise put, how many U-regions (unit-regions) have the Kzer-Za conquered and how many have the Kohr-Ah agnigilated?
Ah, first and foremost - the Kohr-Ah, I think, have traveled with a slower speed, since they didn't have battle thralls to help them.
So the image must show the Ur-Quan "Homework" more to the right.

Alright, we have some clues as to how many regions were taken over:
1.
Zelnick: If you attack us, we will destroy you.
Kohr-Ah: Over five thousand races have made such a claim.
We survived. They did not.
Nor shall you.

2. The Ur-Quan Conflict lasted for 34 years.
3. There were 20 species in our unit-region
4. All this madness started about 15,500 BC (so 17,500 before current events).

So the Kohr-Ah have agnigilated over 250 unit-regions in 17,500 years.
The Kzer-Za: 17,500/34=514.7 unit-regions.

Now, not every species would make that claim - of the species in our region in the 2100s, the Pkunk, the Burvixese, the Arilou and maybe the Mmrnmhrm wouldn't make it. So just 16.5/20;
This means over 6060 total species agnigilated: 6060/20=303 unit-regions agnigilated

Also, probably the Kzer-Za would proceed more swiftly through other unit-regions. Say,
17,500/9=1944 (what a coincidence! about the year that the Ur-Quan learned about Earth! not that I would make an argument out of this.) regions.

SO
Kohr-Ah 303 u-regs
Kzer-Za 1944 u-regs

So the HS galaxy has about 2248 unit-regions, and the Kohr-Ah traveled really slow. And the Ur-Quan Homework is 48.5 degrees spinward from our region.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 09:36:43 pm by Valaggar » Logged
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2007, 10:07:29 pm »

Has it occured to you that travelling "spinward" could be about the same thing as not travelling at all?
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2007, 08:24:17 am »

The galactic rotation speed is not fast enough to propel fleets etc. with a suitable speed.
Otherwise, imagine that we'd all be pulled from our places/travel slower in antispinward.

Also, you'd rotate with the stars, so you'll stay in the same relative position.

I have another quote too (my favourite Ur-Quan quote!):
In our twenty thousand years along the Path of Now and Forever
we have dominated thousands of species, yes
but we have saved hundreds from extinction.
You imagine the threat of unknown invaders, or alien pestilence borne on the solar wind.
We have seen these. But you do not acknowledge your own worst enemy, yourselves.
We have found dead worlds without number, planets ravaged by atomic fire or gaian collapse.
These planets were not rendered sterile by outside forces.
They bear sad testament to the effects of unrestrained instinct and emotion
or simple ignorance.
We will prevent such mistakes.

"Thousands of species" means several 50s of unit-regions. And indeed, 1944 unit-regions means approximately 38880 species - thirty-nine thousands of species. Reasonable enough.

And why did I say that the average of years required to conquer a unit-region by the Kzer-Za is 9?

Because: Let the power of one race be 1.
Then the power of the entire Alliance will be 7 to the power of 2, i.e. 49.
(about that is the bonus of having allies)
The Ur-Quan Slave War lasted for 34 years, this means that a power of 49 is defeated in 34 years.
So a power of 1 is defeated in 34/49 years = 8.4 months.
20 powers, separated, are defeated in 168 months = 14 years. Eh, heheheh, then 14 is the average we seek:

17,500/14=1250 unit-regions conquered by Kzer-Za. Better.

SO
Kohr-Ah 303 u-regs
Kzer-Za 1250 u-regs

So the HS galaxy has about 1553 unit-regions, and the Kohr-Ah traveled four times slower than the Kzer-Za (consistent enough with the power square formula). And the Ur-Quan Homework is 70.23 degrees spinward from our region.
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 06:46:54 pm »

The Ur-Quan accelerated the end of the Slave War by using the Sa-Matra, which they normally would not have done. As discussed in another thread, this is probably because they knew that the Kohr-Ah were close by and they needed time to prepare for the inevitable battles to come, and wanted to get our sector in order before they arrived. Otherwise, I suspect the Slave War would have dragged on for a much longer period of time.
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Valaggar
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 07:21:47 pm »

Ah, of course... anyway, drop out that power square formula, the Kzer-Za defeat a single species in a few months, they "rapidly subjugated" the Hierarchy races.

So between 3 months a race, which means 3500 unit-regions, and 8.4 months, i.e. 1250 unit regions.
Now, I acknowledge that having fleets of battle thralls supporting you helps greatly, but it's exaggerated that the speed of the Kzer-Za would be 12x greater than that of the Kohr-Ah for that cause. Something around 1250 u-regs is much more likely.

Apropos, why didn't the Kzer-Za bring the battle thralls from the previous region that they conquered? Maybe they knew that it was about time for the Kohr-Ah to come, so they didn't want others to interfere?
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Re: The Shape of the HyperSpace Galaxy
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2007, 07:51:08 pm »

I can think of a few answers:
1. What you suggested.
2. The most unlikely one. Every other species were either destroyed or chose to become Fallow Slaves. I tell you again, VERY unlikely, since there are thousands of subjugated species.
3. Every species' ultimate destiny is to become Fallow Slaves. Being a Battle Thrall gives only temporary freedom. But... I don't think so, since the Ur-Quan never lie, so unless it is a part of the deal, it is impossible.
4. They were left to secure their local area, likely with a portion of the fleet to make sure they don't rebel. This is possible.
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