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Poll
Question: Do you feel like the cost values of ships must be re-calculated?
Definitely!
Most, yes.
Some, yes.
Too few.
No way!

Author Topic: Cost balancing project  (Read 21746 times)
Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2007, 02:45:56 pm »

Hey hey hey... let's see these new values for those problem-ships...
Here they are:
Mycon -1
Pkunk 0.5
Supox -0.5
Androsynth -0.5
Ilwrath -1
Orz 0
Yehat 0
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2007, 03:04:00 pm »

Next on my list (well, I didn't make a list.. anyway:)

Mmrnmhrm:

Ur-Quan 1
Chmmr -1.5 ? -2
Kohr-Ah -2
Chenjesu 1.5 ? 0.5 or 1
Orz -1
Yehat -1.5
Utwig 2
Mycon -1.5 ? 0.5 or even more?
Pkunk 2 ? 1 (don't forget resurrection)
Mmrnmhrm 0
Melnorme 2
Spathi 2
Druuge 0.5 ? -0.5 or -1
Slylandro 2 ? 1.5
Supox 2 ? 1.5 or 1
Arilou 2 ? 1.5
Androsynth 0
Syreen -1.5
Earthling 1
VUX 2 ? 1.5
Ilwrath 0
Zoq-Fot-Pik 1.5
Shofixti 0.5
Umgah 2
Thraddash 1.5
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2007, 04:58:23 pm »

Alright, I've fixed Mmrnmhrm without help.
I've returned at working at this project.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2007, 09:14:07 pm »

For Mmrnmhrm, these values need to get less extreme:
Kohr-Ah -2
Yehat -1.5
Melnorme 2
Spathi 2
Syreen -1.5
Umgah 2

And this one needs to get more extreme:
Thraddash 1.5
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My team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr is the most unfair team ever!
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2007, 09:35:12 pm »

Thank you. I had overlooked those.
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2007, 03:17:52 pm »

Another aberrant ship:
The Orz Nemesis.

Ur-Quan 0.5
Chmmr 1.5
Kohr-Ah -1.5
Chenjesu 1.5
Orz 0
Yehat 0.5
Utwig 1.5
Mycon 2
Pkunk -1.5
Mmrnmhrm 1
Melnorme 1
Spathi 1
Druuge 1
Slylandro -1
Supox 1
Arilou 1.5
Androsynth -2
Syreen 0
Earthling 2
VUX 2
Ilwrath 2
Zoq-Fot-Pik 2
Shofixti 2
Umgah 2
Thraddash 1.5
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2007, 04:21:44 pm »

These values seem off:

Chmmr 1.5
Pkunk -1.5
Melnorme 1
Arilou 1.5
Earthling 2
Thraddash 1.5
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My team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr is the most unfair team ever!
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2007, 07:43:24 pm »

Orz vs Arilou can launch a dozen of Marines and storm the Skiff with rocket launchers from afar.
The other values are now changed.
(Orz vs Chmmr is now +2, I hope this is right)
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2007, 09:26:28 pm »

Chmmr 1.5
should go DOWN. The chmmr can planet-camp, and the Orz only has to make one mistake to die. I'd put this somewhere near 0.

Pkunk -1.5
Arilou 1.5
What can you do to the Arilou that you apparently _can't_ do to the Pkunk? Really, launching lots of marines against Arilou is awfully stupid, and you're likely to just miss and die.
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My team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr is the most unfair team ever!
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2007, 09:42:31 pm »

Ah, got it. Chmmr is now -0.5, Pkunk and Arilou 0.5.
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2007, 09:27:34 pm »

A difficult match: Arilou vs Melnorme. I gave the Arilou a +0.5, but I'm not sure.

And now, the Pkunk Fury: (note that you need to take into account resurrection; currently, I'm doing this in this way: If the Pkunk's rating is negative - let's say that in 1 life, the Fury gets a -0.5 rating. Then I calculate: [(RatingForOneResurrection*2)+RatingForTwoResurrections+RatingForThreeResurrections]/4. If it is positive, no change.)
Ur-Quan -1
Chmmr -1
Kohr-Ah -1.5
Chenjesu -1
Orz -0.5
Yehat -1.5
Utwig 0
Mycon 1
Pkunk 0
Mmrnmhrm -1
Melnorme -1
Spathi 1.5
Druuge -1.5
Slylandro 0
Supox -1
Arilou -0.5
Androsynth -1
Syreen -1.5
Earthling 1.5
VUX -1.5
Ilwrath 0
Zoq-Fot-Pik 1
Shofixti 1
Umgah 0
Thraddash 1.5
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2007, 09:35:13 pm »

I don't have much experience with Pkunk, I can't say whether any of those values are off.
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My team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr is the most unfair team ever!
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Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2007, 11:46:06 am »

Anyway, Pkunk is not that hard to test. The problem is that I haven't applied that same algorithm everywhere, but I will redo it soon.

Shofixti Scout:
Ur-Quan -1.5
Chmmr -1
Kohr-Ah -1.5
Chenjesu -1.5
Orz -2
Yehat -0.5
Utwig -1.5
Mycon 2
Pkunk -1
Mmrnmhrm -0.5
Melnorme -0.5
Spathi -1
Druuge -0.5
Slylandro 0
Supox -0.5
Arilou -1.5
Androsynth -1
Syreen -0.5
Earthling 0
VUX 2
Ilwrath 2
Zoq-Fot-Pik -1
Shofixti 0
Umgah 0
Thraddash 1
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Mormont
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2007, 03:31:21 pm »

With a gravity whip, the Shofixti pretty much has to detonate against the Mycon - you can't really steer the globs into a speeding Mycon, he'll easily regenerate from peashooter damage, and one mistake or an unlucky asteroid is all it takes for a plasmoid to kill you. The same is true to a lesser extent for the Ilwrath and VUX if they get a gravity whip. And these ships usually will get to the planet, because it takes a long time for a Scout to kill something with those energy darts.

Shofixti can still usually kill all three of these ships and can maybe ping them to death sometimes, but needs the glory device to do it consistently. This also raises the question of how crippling an enemy ship or taking it down with you should be rated.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 03:35:29 pm by Mormont » Logged
Valaggar
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Re: Cost balancing project
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2007, 03:46:26 pm »

Corrected.

Quote from: Mormont
Shofixti can still usually kill all three of these ships and can maybe ping them to death sometimes, but needs the glory device to do it consistently. This also raises the question of how crippling an enemy ship or taking it down with you should be rated.
Normally. No matter if you used the Glory Device, Fusion Blasts, MX Missiles or anything else, the outcome will still, for example, that you lost your ship and halved the enemy crew. (=-1)
Using the Glory Device to damage the enemy is loss, not victory, since he survives. Using it to annihilate both ships is a draw.
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