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 Poll
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| Question: |
Do you feel like the cost values of ships must be re-calculated?
| Definitely! |
| Most, yes. |
| Some, yes. |
| Too few. |
| No way! |
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Author
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Topic: Cost balancing project (Read 23138 times)
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AngusThermopyle
*Smell* controller
 Offline
Gender: 
Posts: 304
A paranoid android.
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Well, I’ve been thinking about this a bit lately and came up with a list of what I feel the ship point values should be. This is based purely on my own experience playing net melee and how effective I feel each ship is. I’ve also been playing a lot of ‘reject’ ships lately to see just how useful they are against some of the better players. (Had I made this list a year ago, before net melee was available, I’m sure it would have been pretty different.)
So here is my list, presented in descending order of what my values are:
SHIP
Chmmr
Kohr-Ah
Ur-Quan
Chenjesu
Utwig
Orz
Yehat
Melnorme
Mmrnmhrm
Androsynth
Pkunk
Slylandro
Druuge
Mycon
Supox
Arilou
Spathi
Syreen
Earthling
VUX
Ilwrath
Thraddash
Umgah
Zoq-Fot-Pik
Shofixti | ORIGINAL VALUE
30
30
30
28
22
23
23
18
19
15
20
17
17
21
16
16
18
13
11
12
10
10
7
6
5 | | ANGUS’ VALUE
34
33
28
27
24
23
20
20
20
18
18
17
17
17
16
15
15
13
12
12
9
9
6
6
6 | | NET CHANGE
+4
+3
-2
-1
+2
0
-3
+2
+1
+3
-2
0
0
-4
0
-1
-3
0
+1
0
-1
-1
-1
0
+1 |
So why do this? Because I’m afraid that sooner or later any competitive online matches are going to be between two homogenous fleets, with only 1 or 2 different ships.
How boring. I miss playing with and against Mycons, Spathis, Yehats, etc. I think they’re interesting ships and they’re consistently MIA unless I’m in a “I don’t give a hoot if I lose” kinda mood and pick them anyways.
As you can see, there are some pretty drastic changes there. But then again, I think there are some pretty drastic discrepancies.
I’ve stated above that we’ll probably never get everyone to agree on a modified point system, and that’s still probably true. Nevertheless, this is my list (and I’m sure they’ll be some disagreement). Maybe I’ll get around to modding it one day to test it out…
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« Last Edit: June 29, 2007, 08:58:54 pm by AngusThermopyle »
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meep-eep
Forum Admin
Enlightened
Offline
Posts: 2847
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I've recently tried a new approach, with Cedric6014 and Elvish as victims volunteers.
Each player got a number of points, and every ship was auctioned off to the person bidding the most points.
We did this manually, which takes a lot of time, and is a lot of work for the auction master, but it could be built into the game.
It adds a whole new level of strategy; each player must make sure he/she has appropriate counters available, and a player may choose to buy a ship he/she doesn't want just to make sure the opponent doesn't get it.
The advantage is that the value is determined automatically; there are no artificial predefined values. It also gives you original matches, as every ship (if it isn't excluded from the auction) is used once, and the usual counters may not be available. You also won't have any mirror-matches, which usually are little fun.
The prices that the ships go for could be collected, and the results could be used to determine a new list price for the ships.
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“When Juffo-Wup is complete
when at last there is no Void, no Non
when the Creators return
then we can finally rest.”
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evktalo
Frungy champion
Offline
Posts: 50
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Sounds very cool. I always though the Supermelee netplay has endless gamemode/ruleset gamedevelopment possibilities.
--Eino
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human fluid sack
Zebranky food
Offline
Posts: 14
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The stock market type approach (adjusting the prices for the most and least used ships) some have mentioned would be the best way to balance the values. Assuming of course you have good and experienced players doing it, you wouldn't want me doing it for instance since I'm terrible at multiplayer.
The idea of using the AI to test it, doesn't work at all. I actually did that a couple of years ago. Using the AI, I had each ship fight one each of all the other ships in as big of groups as the ship could handle. I then calculated what the ship "should be" valued at. (Repeat experiments proved the results to be more consientant than I was expecting.)
For instance the shofixti ship is a 5, which if it were perfectly valued for the setup I used, would mean that it would take 437/5 = 87.4 shofixti ships to defeat one ship of every type. Here's the results I got (which actually tells you about the AI more than the ships):
ship - real value - calculated value - change
Androsynth 15 18.3 +22%
Arilou 16 10.1 -37%
Chenjesi 28 25.1 -10%
Chmmr 30 48.5 +62%
Druuge 17 11.3 -34%
Ilwrath 10 10.6 +6%
Kohr-Ah 30 30.0 ----
Melnorme 18 9.9 -45%
Mmrnmhrm 19 8.8 -54%
Mycon 21 9.3 -56%
Orz 23 10.1 -56%
Shofixti 5 7.7 +54%
Ur-Quan 30 26.6 -11%
Utwig 22 55.3 +151%
Vux 12 10.0 -17%
Yehat 23 32.6 +42%
These ships couldn't be valued because they had at least one ship (which is listed after it) which the AI couldn't beat even with 14-1 ship numbers against it.
Earthling - Chmmr
Pkunk - Syreen
Slylandro - Chmmr
Spathi - Chmmr
Supox - Chmmr
Syreen - Chmmr
Thraddash - Chmmr
Umgah - Spathi
Zoq-Fot-Pik - Chmmr
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human fluid sack
Zebranky food
Offline
Posts: 14
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Also, from what I read I guess everyone is in agreement with the drop in value the Mycon had from SC1 to SC2.
What about the change for the Earthling, Chenjesu, and Syreen ships.
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Mormont
*Smell* controller
Offline
Posts: 253
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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Mycon and Syreen were more expensive in SC1 because of their powerful strategic mode abilities. Also, the Mycon is decent to good against most SC1 ships and bad against most new SC2 ships. THe Mycon's cost should be reduced another couple points, though.
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Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]
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