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Author Topic: Order of events at the end of the War  (Read 1810 times)
FyzixFighter
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Order of events at the end of the War
« on: April 17, 2007, 07:01:06 am »

I need some fresh eyes on a current discussion over on the ultronomicon here. The main crux of the debate is about when  and how the "final defense of Raynet" occurred (where Talana mentions her sister died). But it touches on a much bigger issue of what exactly was the series of events of the end of the War after the events of SC1 (c. 2134). There's a lot of pieces of information in the conversations, but organizing all of it into a coherent story is the hard part. I remember going through all of it over a year ago (so I might be a little entrenched in my interpretation) but I'd like to see how other SC aficionados assemble the pieces to this puzzle.

For reference, this is how I've always ordered the events:
  • Hierarchy breaks the Indi-Mira line
  • Final defense at Raynet - Alliance last ditch effort to reform the Coreward Front
  • Alliance holds at Rigel, but costs the Chenjesu greatly
  • Ur-Quan bypass Rigel, attack Procyon defeating Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm
  • Ur-Quan conquer Earth
  • Arilou bug out, Yehat+Shofixti head for Gorno but prevent Syreen from following
  • Ur-Quan conquer Syreen
  • Yehat abandon Shofixti, Shofixti blow up their sun when Ur-Quan enter system
  • Yehat join Hierarchy as battle thralls

Now it's your turn.  Grin
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Valaggar
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Re: Order of events at the end of the War
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 02:26:36 pm »

I'd say:
  • Hierarchy breaks the Indi-Mira line, pushing towards "beyond Raynet"
  • Alliance holds at Rigel, but costs the Chenjesu greatly
  • Ur-Quan bypass Rigel, attack Procyon defeating Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm
  • Ur-Quan conquer Earth
  • Arilou bug out, Yehat+Shofixti head for Gorno but prevent Syreen from following
  • Final defense at Raynet - the Syreen's last stand, during which they surrender
  • Yehat abandon Shofixti, Shofixti blow up their sun when Ur-Quan enter system
  • Yehat join Hierarchy as battle thralls
So my problem is only with the "final defense at Raynet". After all, only the Syreen mention it; they say "My older sister, Diani, was a starship officer in the Space Patrol
she was part of the final defense at Raynet... she didn't make it back.

When the Ur-Quan caught us in open space, we all thought we were going to die
but then, instead of killing us, the Ur-Quan offered us a choice
we could join the ranks of their combat thralls, or we could be slave-shielded on our homeworld.
Like the people of Earth, we chose peace. We became fallow slaves.
", implying that they were the only ones at Raynet.
FyzixFighter says that the yellow part of the quote is not in continuation to the lime green part, because in the first part Talana is describing herself and her family, while in the second part she jumps to how the Syreen were defeated. I say "no".
He says that the "she didn't make it back" part means that Talana was in the Habitat Fleet, in another place, while Diani was fighting at Raynet in a Penetrator fleet. I say that "she didn't make it back" to her family, simply - after all, no matter how close they were as length, they were separated by a lot of cosmic space, so the phrase is justified.

Other thing to remark is that the Mmrnmhrm were already defeated: "When the Ur-Quan told us to return to our homeworld, we explained that we had none.
Ur-Quan Master Nine explained that they had encountered this situation before
"

FyzixFighter also has a number of other counter-arguments against the idea that Raynet was the Syreen last stand, on that talk page. I've just spoken about 1), now:
2)Who said that Raynet wasn't in human space?
3)Yes, that's what I say too (now).
4)They didn't have to be there. They could join the Yehat just as well from anywhere.

Also, "final defense" is more than the last defense of a front - it usually means the last stand of a warring faction.

And just saying "beyond Raynet" doesn't mean that you hold Raynet as an important place during the advance (he'd have mentioned the final stand otherwise), Hayes simply uses Raynet as a reference point since there are no other constellations/stars available for such use.
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Valaggar
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Re: Order of events at the end of the War
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 07:57:33 pm »

FyzixFighter, may I request a poll added to this thread?
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meep-eep
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Re: Order of events at the end of the War
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 10:15:06 pm »

A poll? This isn't a matter of opinion. Either the canon text says something happened before or after something else, or it didn't, in which case we should leave it open.
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when at last there is no Void, no Non
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Valaggar
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Re: Order of events at the end of the War
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2007, 04:40:38 pm »

A poll would help since we'd know what people consider more likely.
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Re: Order of events at the end of the War
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2007, 05:10:14 pm »

A poll would help since we'd know what people consider more likely.
Only really in the case that people explain their reasoning.
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