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Author Topic: TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")  (Read 1985 times)
Valaggar
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TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")
« on: May 04, 2007, 09:14:28 pm »

In the HyperSpace galaxy, there aren't as much stars as in the TrueSpace galaxy (200-400 billions of stars total, so each one of the Ur-Quan subspecies would have to deal with 400-800 millions of sectors in 17,500 years, obviously not possible; see also these calculations).

What happens then with the stars which don't have a "portal"? Why do the gravity wells of some stars generate HS-TS transition points, and the gravity wells of other stars do not? And what happens to the races that develop HyperDrive in such systems, only to discover that they have no way back? (Possibility: stay in their star system because their scouts sent to HS did not return, so HS travel is deemed unsafe)

There would be x explanations:
  • Using HyperDrive to exit a star system causes weaknesses in the already-weak-in-that-point "interdiminsional" (to use Galvennmeister's trademark mistake - and obsession) fabric, so a new portal appears for the star.
  • The TrueSpace galaxy actually corresponds to a large number of smaller HyperSpace galaxies (so some stars may actually be closer in TrueSpace, albeit still very far).
  • Indeed, some stars do not have a portal, due to the interdimensional fabric being too strong in that place.
  • Portals are "generated" taking into account life present on the planet at some point in the more-or-less-recent past or future - this would explain why there are so many life-filled planets and Water/Telluric Worlds.

I think I favor the last explanation, since it manages to explain much in an interesting way. A second candidate would have been the second one, but its problem is that HS-TS correspondences do not seem THAT warped.
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Tiberian
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Re: TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 11:24:36 pm »

What makes you say that there are not as many stars in a hyper space galaxy than in true space galaxy?

I'd say that it is wrong to say "hyper space galaxy" since galaxies are formed in true space and in SC2 universe, the distances in hyper space are not relative to distances in true space.
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Valaggar
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Re: TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2007, 08:03:31 am »

Quote from: Tiberian
I'd say that it is wrong to say "hyper space galaxy" since galaxies are formed in true space and in SC2 universe, the distances in hyper space are not relative to distances in true space.
The stars in HyperSpace are still grouped in, let's say, pseudo-galaxies: multiple references to the Ur-Quan sweeping through the galaxy (thus, the HS galaxy), and, more importantly, the HS galaxy referred to as having a rotation direction (the Kzer-Za traveled spinward and the Kohr-Ah antispinward, see Melnorme dialogue, last historical item).

Quote from: Tiberian
What makes you say that there are not as many stars in a hyper space galaxy than in true space galaxy?
Haven't you read my post? It's the first two lines. See link too.
Also, 200-400 billions of stars in 17,500 years would be a star in 2.75-5.5 seconds. Ha ha ha. It's not possible.
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Re: TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2007, 10:26:17 am »

Do they have to check every star?

My impression is that they (both Ur-Quan variants) home on hyperwave signals, so that reduces the star count at least a thousandfold, maybe twice that - from 300 (+-100) billion to 300 (+-100) million or even to 300 (+-100) thousand star systems to rampage.
Hmm,  Kzer-Za do track radio/TV broadcasts too, but still most planets don't harbor space-faring lifeforms...

In SC2/UQM the density of hyperspace-capable races' homeworlds is one in a few hundred stars (how many actually?). I'm willing to explain the difference ( 1/100 000 vs. 1/300(?) ) by assuming that in SC universe intelligence tends to develop in 'clusters' i.e there are several smaller areas (like SC2/UQM starmap area), where high-tech civilization density is relatively high, scattered around the galaxy - most of the galaxy is empty of intelligent lifeforms.
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Re: TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2007, 10:37:37 am »

Not to mention that in reality, most stars don't have any planets.
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Valaggar
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Re: TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2007, 12:57:21 pm »

Quote from: Zieman
Do they have to check every star?
Why wouldn't they? Some species are still too young to use radio waves, but they are still a potential future threat which must be removed (either by enslaving or agnigilating).

Quote from: Zieman
In SC2/UQM the density of hyperspace-capable races' homeworlds is one in a few hundred stars (how many actually?)
In our sector there are exactly 501 stars and 19 homeworlds (of living races at the start of the Ur-Quan Slave War): 1 homeworld in 26 planetary systems.

Quote from: Zieman
I'm willing to explain the difference ( 1/100 000 vs. 1/300(?) ) by assuming that in SC universe intelligence tends to develop in 'clusters' i.e there are several smaller areas (like SC2/UQM starmap area), where high-tech civilization density is relatively high, scattered around the galaxy - most of the galaxy is empty of intelligent lifeforms.
It is very possible, indeed. Maybe the portals are clustered according to the planetary systems' probability of evolving life.

Quote from: Tiberian
Not to mention that in reality, most stars don't have any planets.
This is debatable. Anyway, probably the portals are clustered according to the type of the planetary system; this explains why we don't have any pulsars, black holes or binary star systems. As such, there are many sectors with non-life-supporting planetary systems, because there are many such systems. It's a good explanation for everything. It also explains why the species on the edge of the sector didn't have many contacts - they are at the edge of our life-cluster. It explains, too, why the Kzer-Za didn't bring their battle thralls along - logistics. And it explains why the QuasiSpace map has so few portals - there is a lot of empty HyperSpace/HyperSpace with lifeless planetary systems. And why didn't the Sentient Milieu/Dnyarri Slave Empire (spanning only 500 light-years, i.e. probably just as many HyperSpace distance units, or at least 300 HSdu) expand - it was in a nearby cluster (maybe clusters are grouped in macroclusters) and it reached its limits.  I like it.

____
And since the Kohr-Ah fleet may cross a full 250 stars/sector density (smaller density, since the theory implies it) galaxy on the diameter in 5500-7800 years, without stopping, in the alloted time the Ur-Quan should have traveled nearly 3 diameters each, the number of these life-clusters should be really small to allow the Ur-Quan defeat them in the alloted time, and then they can't amass such a large number of defeated species.
So it seems more likely the lifeless regions may actually have a greater star density, since they're many and must be congested more, and the galaxy is smaller and the life-bearing clusters much closer to each other.
____
But what about rogue planets? Probably too light to have a portal. Then what happens with life evolved on such planets? Interesting. Or maybe they have portals that are in one moment in a place in HS and the other moment on the other side, due to the nonlinear correspondence between TS and HS? Still very interesting.
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Re: TrueSpace-HyperSpace correspondences ("portals")
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2007, 09:48:40 pm »

Not to mention that in reality, most stars don't have any planets.

Why do you think so? Binary systems? Okay, it seems HS doesn't do close binaries. Either way, that only knocks out 2/3 of all systems. Throwing out first generation stars, we're left with over 1/6 of the non-core galaxy potentially having planets.

~~~~~

In addition to just counting, the relative populations of the masses of stars are way off. There are nowhere near enough red dwarfs in the HS map.
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