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Author Topic: are some parts too hard??  (Read 3946 times)
big flu
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are some parts too hard??
« on: May 02, 2007, 09:32:22 am »

i just found this game about a week ago and i havent stopped playing it since. it has instantly become one of my favorite games of all time. i havent beaten it yet but im at the end when the kohr-an are cleansing and that made me want to post this. now i love a challenge and a "thinking" game, but some parts in this game are just TOO HARD to figure out

now obviously some clues are real easy, they give u direct coordinates etc. but some of the "clues" if you can even call them that are so cryptic they left me scratching my head trying to figure them out. i never would have gotten this far without a walkthrough, i hate using walkthroughs but i had to glance at one every now and then because some parts were just killing me. i.e. - ZEX's "clue" about where to find the rare beast he wanted for his collection. that constellation looked NOTHING like he described and i probably wasted 6 months of game time trying to find it before finally reading a guide.

but the worst was when the kohr-ah started the cleanse, i didnt know it was happening at first until i noticed they had moved into druuge space on the starmap. again i had no idea what to do, naturally i thought it was time for the final fight so i loaded up on crew and weaponry and went to meet them. after killing about 25 ships i noticed the ship numbers were repeating, so i knew my objective wasnt taking out EVERY kohr-ah ship (which i was prepared to do). so again i was stranded with no idea what the hell to do. should i return to earth to wait them out? if i didnt turn to a walkthrough id probably still be battling infinite numbers of kohr-ah ships.

and that brings me to the next one, the Ultron...i didn't even MEET the utwigs at this point. i had barely even explored that corner (i guess thats my fault) but damn, i wasnt really told to, and they were paid ZERO attention by the melnorme selling info, or any other race for that matter. i heard them brought up once maybe twice and thats it. i didnt even know what planet the sa-matra was being held on, and that i needed that to blow it up. even the smallest clue like - "perhaps a device exists that could destroy something of great value to the ur-quan" etc, would have been good. the only thing i got was the dynarri saying "find the weakness and attack it". ooook, i'll get right on that

not to mention without a walkthrough i would have no idea that there was a 4 year time limit on the game. i missed a whole bunch of stuff anyway. didnt even get to the mycons or the utwigs, barely talked to the druuge, etc. but i bought every piece of info from the melnorme, listened close to every race talk about every thing they had to talk about, etc. and was still clueless at times

is it just me or did anyone else have problems the first time they played it? maybe i missed something
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Tiberian
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2007, 09:57:36 am »

I'd hate to rub it in your face, but even my mother figured out where the ZEX beast was based on his clue. It requires the original starmap though where the constellations are 'drawn'. But that can be found online.

As for the hints on completing the game - they are there. If you find out what happened to the Chenjesu and the Mmrnmhrm, you'll also find out about your ultimate goal in the game. Commander Hayes can tell you the location of the Chenjesu homeworld. Not a bad place to start.

It has been said often on this forum, but in the original version there was a hint to the time limit as well. I'd suppose it is in the FAQ or something. Instead of using walkthroughs, I suggest asking your questions from experienced players on this forum for example, so 'we' can give you the right direction without spoiling anything.

And finally: Star Control 2 is not an easy game to beat. I'm pretty sure everyone has had '"problems" on their first time. But if you always follow every clue, you don't have to do much guessing in the game. There is a thread about hints to new players, I suggest you read that and start over.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2007, 04:32:49 pm »

I think the first time I played, I ignored that little time limit warning, and I got so confused when the Kohr-ah started to cleanse.

You might just need to go back to an earlier save point.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2007, 05:44:43 pm »

[...] before finally reading a guide.

Guide author says "hello". <3

Most people don't beat the game without assistance on their first try, don't beat yourself up over it.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2007, 06:47:19 pm »

Quote from: big flu
not to mention without a walkthrough i would have no idea that there was a 4 year time limit on the game.
I don't want to be redundant, but, Core Team, here's another evidence that the MetaChron dialogue has to be reinserted.

Ah, and, Core Team, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a link to the manual on the Downloads page?

Quote from: big flu
and that brings me to the next one, the Ultron...i didn't even MEET the utwigs at this point. i had barely even explored that corner (i guess thats my fault) but damn, i wasnt really told to, and they were paid ZERO attention by the melnorme selling info, or any other race for that matter.
The Utwig are referenced to in the Melnorme's "current events". The last two entries.

Quote from: big flu
i probably wasted 6 months of game time trying to find it before finally reading a guide.
Saving before going on perilous exploration trips and reverting if unsuccessful is always a good idea.

Quote from: big flu
ZEX's "clue" about where to find the rare beast he wanted for his collection. that constellation looked NOTHING like he described and i probably wasted 6 months of game time trying to find it before finally reading a guide.
Yep... maybe I'm amongst the few who actually found the Beast based on the "Linch"->"Lyncis" clue.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2007, 07:09:46 pm »

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Ah, and, Core Team, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a link to the manual on the Downloads page?

Im assuming you mean the original SC2 manual? I don't think thats freely distributable, so linking it treads that line of legality. Or if you mean the UQM manual, in which case I dunno that status of it haha.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2007, 08:09:58 pm »

I'd hate to rub it in your face, but even my mother figured out where the ZEX beast was based on his clue. It requires the original starmap though where the constellations are 'drawn'. But that can be found online.

As for the hints on completing the game - they are there. If you find out what happened to the Chenjesu and the Mmrnmhrm, you'll also find out about your ultimate goal in the game. Commander Hayes can tell you the location of the Chenjesu homeworld. Not a bad place to start.

It has been said often on this forum, but in the original version there was a hint to the time limit as well. I'd suppose it is in the FAQ or something. Instead of using walkthroughs, I suggest asking your questions from experienced players on this forum for example, so 'we' can give you the right direction without spoiling anything.

And finally: Star Control 2 is not an easy game to beat. I'm pretty sure everyone has had '"problems" on their first time. But if you always follow every clue, you don't have to do much guessing in the game. There is a thread about hints to new players, I suggest you read that and start over.

obviously i don't have that drawn starmap and didnt even know it existed to look for it

Quote
Guide author says "hello". <3

thanks for the help Smiley. i didnt read it word for word but there were times where i had no choice but to read it

this game reminds me of Amiga games like Another World where it forces you to die in order to find out what to do next. newbies will be playing through it a few times and ripping their hair out every time they find out they need to restart the game over again. its worth it, but still, it can be brutal at times

things i know i didnt do -
never met the utwigs
did not explore the chenjesu homeworld
never met the mycons
barely touched ilwrath space
didnt get the syreen as allies
didnt get the yehat as allies
probably a lot more that i dont know of

i don't want to knock a game from 1992 too much but a journal would have been HUGE. i have so many things scribbled in a notebook its not even funny. has there ever been an attempt to write a journal function into the game? at the very least it could just copy every piece of dialog regarding a certain race and file it under the header of that race. or even better, you could pick what pieces of dialog are to be filed in the journal, so you can quickly copy important coordinates/ plot developments etc. that would be amazingly helpful.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2007, 08:16:34 pm »

this game reminds me of Amiga games like Another World where it forces you to die in order to find out what to do next. newbies will be playing through it a few times and ripping their hair out every time they find out they need to restart the game over again. its worth it, but still, it can be brutal at times

Heh, I loved that game. The killing just made it so much more exciting. The tank was the hardest part, I always just mashed random buttons until it worked.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2007, 08:38:55 pm »

If you befriend the Thraddash anyway, after a while they'll tell you one of their warrior landing parties on Delta Lyncis was attacked by the VUX Beast. It at least points you in the right direction.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2007, 08:54:52 pm »

On a more serious note, I've always felt that this is more like what games should be. Now this is (obviously) just my personal opinion, but I always find training level and the likes really annoying. I enjoy just jumping in, improvising, and failing miserably until I learn. To me, progress earned this way feels a lot more "real", than progress that comes from having ICOM tell me exactly what to do all the time.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2007, 09:04:51 pm »

Absolutely. Having it be so open-ended is what makes it so much fun, and so playable over and over again lol. But you definetly need to save often. Which is why UQM is great, cos theres so many save slots hehe.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2007, 10:27:11 pm »

Not to try to sound superior, but when I played the PC original I figured out all the clues and found everything without using a guide.  The only things I think I (somehow) missed were the AndroSynth city ruins, and only because I didn't bother looking for the AndroSynth when it became obvious that I wasn't going to find them.

But then, the original PC one DOES give you the MetaChron dialogue, and the Mycon Homeworld location (see my thread about that) which might explain why I didn't have to do any random exploring and kept up the pace.

I think the only part that requires real luck is the early game, when you're just getting used to the controls and interface... after that, it's pretty smooth sailing.  The only times I tended to die was when I was facing a tough combat (such as some early battles against Slylandro probes... damn probes...) or when I lost my lander early on.  Hehe, didn't realize how hostile some of those worlds can be when they're tiny and right next to a very hot sun... and I hadn't even met the Melnorme yet.  All those gold resource spots sure can be tempting though...

So yeah, I thought the difficulty level was good.  I think the key thing is to keep a pencil and paper handy and write down anything that sounds remotely like a clue.  I used to tick off any clues that I followed up, which meant that I kept a running record of places I still needed to visit or things that still needed looking into.  That way I ended up finding almost everything/everyone important.  I felt it was a stroke of genius by the designers to make a game that is both so open ended and has such a huge space to explore and yet manages to guide you to all the right places (which is also my objection to leaving out the MetaChron/Mycon Homeworld dialogue in UQM)
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2007, 11:25:40 pm »

It's not open-ended. It's open-middled.
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 12:48:51 am »

[...] before finally reading a guide.

Guide author says "hello". <3

Oh shi-, that is you! I've been using your guide as a reference for the order of events I've been doing the write-up in.  If you notice similarities, that is why. :O

Speaking of which, I should get back to that...
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Re: are some parts too hard??
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 04:48:58 am »

Not knowing about the time limit is a somewhat valid complaint, because a key piece of dialogue with the Melnorme in the DOS version (not bought information, just something they say when you meet them the second time) was removed from the 3DO version for some reason and hasn't been added back into this version yet. That said, the Zoq-fot-pik do tell you how much time is left before the Kohr-ah win, but the Melnorme dialogue is pretty important still.

Lyncis is a pretty distinctive-looking constellation. There aren't very many long, thin ones, and Lyncis is one of them. Also, the Thraddash can give you a more concrete clue if you ally with them.

Besides, the Shofixti plotline is an optional sidequest - since it's not required to beat the game, I think it's okay that it's harder to complete. Most stuff needed to beat the game (and the portal spawner, which is not required but very useful) has at least one strong lead, often multiple ones. The Mycon homeworld is an exception, because key dialogue regarding its coordinates was also left out of the 3DO version.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 04:57:00 am by Mormont » Logged
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