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Author Topic: Respect my ass  (Read 34266 times)
Vee-R
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #150 on: October 24, 2007, 03:44:40 am »

If there is no logical reason at all for these terms, why do they arise?
My point exactly! Tongue

Well, since you're quite obviously non-sarcastic in your quest for an explanation, I've given you one up there. Tongue

Quote
But seriously, I just don't see why there should be "African Americans" but not "European Americans". What's the difference?
(You seem to be quite agitated by my opinion, why?)

*Shrugs* ask whoever governs the acceptance of terms in American political culture, I guess.  I'm not sure why the terms aren't perfectly aligned, gee.

And nah, I'm not particularly agitated by your opinion, it's just something I tend to hear too often, and it's usually accompanied by an acute case of clamoring at insignificant details while completely ignoring the existence of a big picture.  Happens enough in our country, too (I'm making an educated guess that you're Israeli as well).
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #151 on: October 24, 2007, 09:45:38 am »

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And nah, I'm not particularly agitated by your opinion, it's just something I tend to hear too often, and it's usually accompanied by an acute case of clamoring at insignificant details while completely ignoring the existence of a big picture.  Happens enough in our country, too (I'm making an educated guess that you're Israeli as well).

I don't know, you do seem quite agitated to me (compare "kneejerk self-styled multiculturalists/anti-racists" to "mere racists"). I can't see why an attitude that aims to defend people deserves this loud protest.

As for  the big picture, I think I made my point with the meaningless "European American".
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #152 on: October 24, 2007, 07:01:22 pm »

Maybe the peopel don't want to be defended? Saying that black people, white people, yellow people, orange people are all the same or that refering to people with these labels is racism is like saying caling one person a man and another a woman is sexism.

People aren't all the same and some (maybe most) are proud of the distintion. Racism comes
about when terms are used (or invented) to put a negative spin on those differences.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #153 on: October 24, 2007, 08:06:33 pm »

I can't see why an attitude that aims to defend people deserves this loud protest.

Maybe because you want to restrict free speech?
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #154 on: October 24, 2007, 10:39:25 pm »

Pride in such a distinction is a dividing force. The differences that can be shown to correlate with "race" are dwarfed the fluctuations in identity from person to person. When you can judge by the qualities that you believe to be correlated with it, judging by "race" is useless.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #155 on: October 25, 2007, 12:12:03 am »

Pride in such a distinction is a dividing force. The differences that can be shown to correlate with "race" are dwarfed the fluctuations in identity from person to person. When you can judge by the qualities that you believe to be correlated with it, judging by "race" is useless.
Strawman fallacy. Noone is talking about judging by race.
And what I for one am arguing is that there's no harm in saying something like "Who of those people is professor Johnson?", "- The black woman."
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #156 on: October 25, 2007, 12:20:26 am »

Noone is talking about judging by race.
Yes, they are. They're talking about using race as a factor to determine anything about a person. That's a definition of "judging", and the one I intended to use; a less loaded word didn't come to mind at the time.

Also, my post wasn't answering your point; it was intended for VileRancour and Zeep-Eeep.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #157 on: October 25, 2007, 01:44:32 am »

Noone is talking about judging by race.
Yes, they are. They're talking about using race as a factor to determine anything about a person. That's a definition of "judging", and the one I intended to use; a less loaded word didn't come to mind at the time.
Oh? Unless I missed something they're only talking about using language to "determine things" about groups, not individuals.

Like one might talk about "Dutch culture", even though many of the properties in mind will not be specific to "Dutch culture" and/or will not be possessed by many Dutch people. But that does not mean that there aren't customs which are prevalent and notable here, and if you're refering to that aspect of life as a Dutchman, the term will work just fine.

Or you could look at the voting distribution in American presidential elections. Even though the difference doesn't come from the fact that their skins are of different colours1, you can't deny that the distribution for "whites" is very much different from the one for "blacks". For these purposes, grouping by "race" makes a lot of sense. Again, you're determining things about groups, not individuals. (Although the determined distributions give you probabilities of an individual voting one way or another, and I don't see any problem with that either.)
Oh, and you're not going to convince me to say things like "The dark-brown-skinned vote goes for 65% to the republican candidate."

1 Not directly at least; the reasons for voting differently is often dependant on the situtation one is in, which may depend on the treatment received from others based on skin colour.

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Also, my post wasn't answering your point; it was intended for VileRancour and Zeep-Eeep.
I never said it was. I didn't say I was not talking about judging by race, I said noone was.
Or are you implying that I'm not allowed to respond because your remark wasn't directly directed at me?
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #158 on: October 25, 2007, 02:18:28 am »

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Oh, and you're not going to convince me to say things like "The dark-brown-skinned vote goes for 65% to the republican candidate."

That's exactly what you should say, because that's exactly whay what that silly statistic means! Sad


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« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 07:24:43 pm by alephresh » Logged

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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #159 on: October 25, 2007, 06:23:45 pm »

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Also, my post wasn't answering your point; it was intended for VileRancour and Zeep-Eeep.
I never said it was. I didn't say I was not talking about judging by race, I said noone was.
Or are you implying that I'm not allowed to respond because your remark wasn't directly directed at me?
It was in response to your "And what I for one am arguing is..." comment.
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