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Author Topic: Respect my ass  (Read 37532 times)
Ivan Ivanov
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2007, 10:22:41 am »

Though I will say guys like Richard Dawkins are not helping the cause. I don't think there's anything stupid about religion (even if some people do stupid things in its name).

I don't follow Dawkins all that closely, so I'm curious, when did he say that religion is stupid?
Every time I saw him, he was very nice to people he talked to.

I think Dawkins is a nice example of what this 'respect' toward beliefs can lead to.
All he says is that he disagrees with religion, that it can lead to bad things, and he explains why he thinks so, and usually does that in an ultra-polite manner.
Yet people think he's an asshole... can someone explain this to me?
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2007, 11:01:19 am »

I think Dawkins is a nice example of what this 'respect' toward beliefs can lead to.
All he says is that he disagrees with religion, that it can lead to bad things, and he explains why he thinks so, and usually does that in an ultra-polite manner.
Yet people think he's an asshole... can someone explain this to me?
Maybe arguing that faith in God is a form of insanity would do it?
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2007, 01:22:08 pm »

Haha cool, that guys smart. Good thinker.
Holy crap, thats exactly how I put it once "how religion might spread like a "mind" virus across societies"
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 01:23:56 pm by randy » Logged
Baltar
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2007, 02:01:31 pm »

I think Dawkins is a nice example of what this 'respect' toward beliefs can lead to.
All he says is that he disagrees with religion, that it can lead to bad things, and he explains why he thinks so, and usually does that in an ultra-polite manner.
Yet people think he's an asshole... can someone explain this to me?
Maybe arguing that faith in God is a form of insanity would do it?

...and this is a problem how?  How else would an atheist or agnostic classify religion?  Dawkins makes arguments that are hard for many people to hear but that doesn't make them disrespectful.

Dawkins has a bad rep because people insecure in their own faith try to whitewash his arguments so that they don't have to listen.  End of story.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 02:11:50 pm by Baltar » Logged
Deus Siddis
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2007, 03:25:00 pm »

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I've heard that in Europe atheism has been picking up a lot of steam recently due to an outright dislike of the American religious right and its effect on the world.

Hahaha! There's no part of that sentence that isn't funny. Wink

1) The "American Religious Right" has NO power. The Pirate Capitalists (private sector political influence if you prefer) USE them for votes and soldiers and to stir up progressives (and you I suppose) so that the bad attention is off of them and so that the progressives will fight them by voting on the opposite sides of stupid and irrelevant issues. Likewise, they do much of the same things to the "Intellectual" Progressives or Liberals and make a killing in the process by using the US' remaining power for the financial and economic benefit of private sector overlords.

2) I think the amount that Europeans are really emotionally hurt by the stuff we do is just a bit exaggerated maybe? No one has that little of a life. There might be the occasional bruised ego that they can't any longer screw the world for the benefit of their upper class as we do now, but it's not like they aren't the most comfortable people of the "modern" world.

3) Anyone who would forsake their religion over crap like that was not religious in the first place or is a flake!


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LOL! HAHAHA...Thank you Deus, thank you.

No need to thank me, just stating the obvious. Grin
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RTyp06
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2007, 04:10:45 pm »

Dawkins' own peers rebuke him at times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2xGIwQfik&mode=related&search=

Tyson agrees with everything Dawkins says but the difference is that Tyson has class, sensetivity and he presents an aire of respect  toward everyone.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 04:12:36 pm by RTyp06 » Logged
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2007, 04:28:53 pm »

...and this is a problem how?  How else would an atheist or agnostic classify religion?  Dawkins makes arguments that are hard for many people to hear but that doesn't make them disrespectful.

Dawkins has a bad rep because people insecure in their own faith try to whitewash his arguments so that they don't have to listen.  End of story.
That was pretty much my point. To the people complaining about Dawkins, his arguments appear disrespectful, even though they make sense from many other people's point of view.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2007, 10:25:28 pm »

First I'd like to say that this is a pleasantly suprising topic coming from Meep-Eep. I've heard that in Europe atheism has been picking up a lot of steam recently due to an outright dislike of the American religious right and its effect on the world. Is there any truth to this?
I haven't noticed it. In fact, here in the Netherlands, the fear-mongering after 9/11 by the US goverment seems to have given the conservatives here more power (as well as the populists).

But Bush might actually prove to be a positive force in the end. Before Bush, the USA were usually blindly followed by European governments, whatever the USA did. And they certainly did things that should not be followed. But thanks to Bush, the USA is taken a lot less seriously, and the default seems to have become to question rather than to adopt. At least that's the impression I get.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2007, 11:09:18 pm »

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I haven't noticed it. In fact, here in the Netherlands, the fear-mongering after 9/11 by the US goverment seems to have given the conservatives here more power (as well as the populists).

Are you sure you are not confusing the effects of so called "fear-mongering" by the US with the so called "hate-mongering" by European Muslim immigrants or the violent actions taken by members of said group?

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But Bush might actually prove to be a positive force in the end. Before Bush, the USA were usually blindly followed by European governments, whatever the USA did. And they certainly did things that should not be followed. But thanks to Bush, the USA is taken a lot less seriously, and the default seems to have become to question rather than to adopt. At least that's the impression I get.

From what I have seen, it seems like before European nations put their moral support behind the US and now they do not as much. And even this is just in military actions, of which the modern world puts forth few with much time in between. Though you might not get that impression from watching or reading the news. The really big changes our two regions make to the world and ourselves is economic and basically only in ways that one might call negative. But that does not catch people's attentions like a relatively small but still bloody war in a small 3rd world nation involving a "western" nation.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2007, 11:11:05 pm »

Quote from: Deus_Siddis
1) The "American Religious Right" has NO power. The Pirate Capitalists (private sector political influence if you prefer) USE them for votes and soldiers and to stir up progressives (and you I suppose) so that the bad attention is off of them and so that the progressives will fight them by voting on the opposite sides of stupid and irrelevant issues. Likewise, they do much of the same things to the "Intellectual" Progressives or Liberals and make a killing in the process by using the US' remaining power for the financial and economic benefit of private sector overlords.

Christian fundamentalists serve as a power base for the Bush administration. Without their support, it would not exist. If by some horrible fate another like-minded Republican such as John McCain (who I used to like!) becomes president, the US Supreme Court will very likely gain another conservative judge that will proceed to overturn abortion. You're telling me that isn't power?
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2007, 11:39:41 pm »

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Christian fundamentalists serve as a power base for the Bush administration.

Who cares about one particular corporate sponsored administration that has continued in the footsteps of its predecessors?

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Without their support, it would not exist.

Well that would certainly suck for the handful of people within the administration, wouldn't it?

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If by some horrible fate another like-minded Republican such as John McCain (who I used to like!) becomes president, the US Supreme Court will very likely gain another conservative judge that will proceed to overturn abortion.

OMGZORS!1!1! So instead of killing thousands of our own babies with doctors, the more "Conservative" national government instead will focus on killing thousands of 3rd world babies with bombs! What a huge difference! Bombs aren't licensed to kill babies, damnit! !

. . .Or then again maybe it won't make any change after all, since lobbying by the private sector is what REALLY makes the difference, everything else is just a political game by little politicians so that they can get reelected and then get greased by big money some more.

As I keep telling people, if this country were a movie, then the "powerful" politicians would be the B actors, the political strategists like Karl Rove would be the directors and the upper class corporate folks would be the producers holding all the cards. And the liberal and conservative voters? They are the chumps who go to the movies to see the same old special effects and plot formulae and crap for the hundredth time.

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You're telling me that isn't power?

You mean more powerful than a piss ant African military dictator who brings millions of a neighboring tribe to their deaths? Or more powerful than a media talking head on a morning show chatting about the latests overpriced gadgets for you to waste your money on? If the former, then no, if the later then yes.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2007, 11:50:07 pm »

Meep, aren't you sanctioning bigotry in a way?
There are gradations between automatic respect and bigotry. (This is also a reply to your other points  which I don't repeat here)

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1st) My original quote was referring to Richard Dawkins who, unlike us, is a public figure. Thus his responsibilities are different than ours imo.
Why?
(Btw -- and I do not intend this as an argument for or against anything -- Dawkins probably wouldn't be such a public figure if he wasn't so confrontational.)

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You are right that we don't have to respect the message, I was referring to respecting the messenger him/herself as a human being.
It depends on what you mean by "respect". (see my previous postings in this thread).
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meep-eep
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2007, 11:51:42 pm »

Are you sure you are not confusing the effects of so called "fear-mongering" by the US with the so called "hate-mongering" by European Muslim immigrants or the violent actions taken by members of said group?
I actually see very little of that.
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2007, 12:29:34 am »

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I actually see very little of that.

And I actually see very little of the fear mongering by the US government towards the people of the Netherlands. I did see the riots in France and the outrage over the depictions though.

Either way, no one ever said it takes that much of something to get people nervous. And it doesn't honestly take that much to place a vote either.
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Grakelin
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Re: Respect my ass
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2007, 12:36:24 am »

I'm pretty sure that when 'respect' is used in such a context, it's supposed to mean 'being polite and not constantly bashing on a person'. A person who bashes Christianity is basically being no better than Jack Chick.
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