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Topic: Respect my ass (Read 46220 times)
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Neonlare
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3 My point is that to have faith in a theory that can't be proven can be seen as much folly as being religious, because neither can be proved hence forth neither should be followed without taking it with a pinch of salt.
While a certain degree of scepticism is useful in most cases, the trick is to apply suitable amounts of it. The major problem with religions is that there are so many of them and precious little ways to evaluate them against each other. In science, you can use the amount of testing and criticism a theory has stood up to determine how big a pinch of salt you need.
Indeed, I like your approach to this, it's not like your typical "You're wrong because I think you are" sort of thing, and you are keeping a neutrality, which is needed for a Discussion, and not an Arguement.
Anyhow, there has been a high rate of recorded OBEs from clinical deaths, roughly 90%. Also, there's the ideals of "Spiritualism" which also comes across as odd. In Spiritualist Churches, the mediums that are there, who do readings and such, have an uncanny rate of accuracy. I've visited a Church like this myself, to expand my knowledge on religions, and when I went for my own private reading, the medium identified my father's name, my heightened interest in the Orient, certain personal events that have happened in my life (direct definitions, not just "did you have a dog?" thing that is usually seen on television) and such, it was my first reading aswell. I'm still sceptical about such things, but it was enough to shake me up a little, and I've seen this in other cases aswell. This could be put down to Psychic abilities, but then again, that's another thing that is still under debate right now.
Alas, what I dislike about the majority of these style topics, is the fact that it involves a lot of bringing up a currently un-answerable question. It's like kicking a dead-cow in the road, nothing's going to come from it. Infact I dislike the fact that this sort of discussion is on a forum dedicated to a video game, not religious/atheist discussions of what happened when and what exactly is real. If anything, I'd suggest a seperate forum section for this stuff, Phillosophy or such, and leave General Discussion to just that.
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"would newton's law theory actually work if a Chmmr Avatar did a backwards pelvic thrust towards a planet and would this constitute an X=Y-0 in the part it ran straight into a Supox Blade and lasted long enough to survive?" - Elerium (as Valaggar)
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Novus
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Fot or not?
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when I went for my own private reading, the medium identified my father's name, my heightened interest in the Orient, certain personal events that have happened in my life (direct definitions, not just "did you have a dog?" thing that is usually seen on television) and such, it was my first reading aswell.
This sounds like the sort of random factoids you can pick up by listening in on conversations. The first thing I'd try to rule out is that the alleged medium hasn't simply been hanging around with his ears open (or has an accomplice in this role). Were the facts he mentioned well known to your friends, relatives or suchlike? Did he know your identity in advance?
Alas, what I dislike about the majority of these style topics, is the fact that it involves a lot of bringing up a currently un-answerable question. It's like kicking a dead-cow in the road, nothing's going to come from it. Infact I dislike the fact that this sort of discussion is on a forum dedicated to a video game, not religious/atheist discussions of what happened when and what exactly is real. If anything, I'd suggest a seperate forum section for this stuff, Phillosophy or such, and leave General Discussion to just that.
Uh, this is the Starbase Café, which exists for more or less this purpose. That said, many of these discussions tend to go round in circles even among people who are supposedly experts on the subject.
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Neonlare
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Nut Case for Star Control
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when I went for my own private reading, the medium identified my father's name, my heightened interest in the Orient, certain personal events that have happened in my life (direct definitions, not just "did you have a dog?" thing that is usually seen on television) and such, it was my first reading aswell.
This sounds like the sort of random factoids you can pick up by listening in on conversations. The first thing I'd try to rule out is that the alleged medium hasn't simply been hanging around with his ears open (or has an accomplice in this role). Were the facts he mentioned well known to your friends, relatives or suchlike? Did he know your identity in advance? Alas, what I dislike about the majority of these style topics, is the fact that it involves a lot of bringing up a currently un-answerable question. It's like kicking a dead-cow in the road, nothing's going to come from it. Infact I dislike the fact that this sort of discussion is on a forum dedicated to a video game, not religious/atheist discussions of what happened when and what exactly is real. If anything, I'd suggest a seperate forum section for this stuff, Phillosophy or such, and leave General Discussion to just that.
Uh, this is the Starbase Café, which exists for more or less this purpose. That said, many of these discussions tend to go round in circles even among people who are supposedly experts on the subject.
Not at all, I've only recently moved into the area, none of anyone we knew went to the church, and the medium was female  .
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"would newton's law theory actually work if a Chmmr Avatar did a backwards pelvic thrust towards a planet and would this constitute an X=Y-0 in the part it ran straight into a Supox Blade and lasted long enough to survive?" - Elerium (as Valaggar)
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Neonlare
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Not at all, I've only recently moved into the area, none of anyone we knew went to the church, and the medium was female . Interesting. If you just dropped in unannounced in a place where nobody knows you, and she managed to figure all that out, she definitely has some impressive information-gathering skills. It's hard to tell from where I'm sitting whether extrasensory perception was necessary or not, but she does seem to be good at what she does.
Indeed, right now I can't say she even knew who I was, if she did, then that would be extremely strange, especially about my interest in the Orient, because really only my family knew about it then. Anyhow, they could actually have these special abilities, or they could be ninjas!  . Seriously though, it was really strange to get something that accurate :/.
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"would newton's law theory actually work if a Chmmr Avatar did a backwards pelvic thrust towards a planet and would this constitute an X=Y-0 in the part it ran straight into a Supox Blade and lasted long enough to survive?" - Elerium (as Valaggar)
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meep-eep
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For 2, "If being happy is all what you want your life to be about then living in a fantasy world is the way to go. Using psychotropic drugs, dreaming, escapism through works of fiction, or suffering from a disorder like Down's syndrome can all helpyou be happy. You're implying that I am looking for a way out, despite the fact you don't know my beliefs, who I am, etc.
Also, don't ever use a Mental Disability as something that can make you "Happy." My mother works at a special needs school as a teaching assistant, and it is not true happiness, what you have just said there is sans politeness to people who do suffer from such disabilities, yes it does make them seem "optimistic" but let me tell you, they can also be wraught with sadness aswell. Also, there are a fair few high functioning Down's Syndrome sufferers, and if they were to read that, they would be very insulted (As I know a fair few as friends). I said can, not will always in every individual. I have personally seen how happy some of these people can get from simple things. I am not claiming that everyone who has Down's syndrome will react like this, and I am not claiming that the individuals who do are happy all the time. My point is that a condition like Down's syndrome can allow someone to be happy in situations where a "normal" person would not be so. Nothing more, nothing less.
3 My point is that to have faith in a theory that can't be proven can be seen as much folly as being religious, because neither can be proved hence forth neither should be followed without taking it with a pinch of salt. I'll be the first one to stress that anything should be examined critically.
But I have explained to you the difference between a scientific theory, and a religious idea, namely the ability to make falsifiable predictions, which makes scientific theories meaningful, but not religious ideas.
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“When Juffo-Wup is complete
when at last there is no Void, no Non
when the Creators return
then we can finally rest.”
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Neonlare
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For 2, "If being happy is all what you want your life to be about then living in a fantasy world is the way to go. Using psychotropic drugs, dreaming, escapism through works of fiction, or suffering from a disorder like Down's syndrome can all helpyou be happy. You're implying that I am looking for a way out, despite the fact you don't know my beliefs, who I am, etc. This is a case of miscommunication. "You" wasn't refering to you personally, but rather to "someone" in general. No insult was intended, and I was not implying that you used religion as an escape. Also, don't ever use a Mental Disability as something that can make you "Happy." My mother works at a special needs school as a teaching assistant, and it is not true happiness, what you have just said there is sans politeness to people who do suffer from such disabilities, yes it does make them seem "optimistic" but let me tell you, they can also be wraught with sadness aswell. Also, there are a fair few high functioning Down's Syndrome sufferers, and if they were to read that, they would be very insulted (As I know a fair few as friends). I said can, not will always in every individual. I have personally seen how happy some of these people can get from simple things. I am not claiming that everyone who has Down's syndrome will react like this, and I am not claiming that the individuals who do are happy all the time. My point is that a condition like Down's syndrome can allow someone to be happy in situations where a "normal" person would not be so. Nothing more, nothing less. 3 My point is that to have faith in a theory that can't be proven can be seen as much folly as being religious, because neither can be proved hence forth neither should be followed without taking it with a pinch of salt. I'll be the first one to stress that anything should be examined critically. But I have explained to you the difference between a scientific theory, and a religious idea, namely the ability to make falsifiable predictions, which makes scientific theories meaningful, but not religious ideas.
1 Fair enough, although from the wording, it's easy to mistaken this.
2 Don't say this then. Because it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about here. You used Down's Syndrome as a derogative statement though, did you not say that "if being happy is all what you want in your life to be about then living in a fantasy world is the way to go"? After which you use examples.
3 Likewise, theories are just that right now, theories. They can't be proven yet.
3 Oh wait, did we just go full circle here?
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"would newton's law theory actually work if a Chmmr Avatar did a backwards pelvic thrust towards a planet and would this constitute an X=Y-0 in the part it ran straight into a Supox Blade and lasted long enough to survive?" - Elerium (as Valaggar)
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Simon K
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It seems there's some confusion as to what, exactly, a "theory" means in scientific terminology. The day-to-day, informal use of the word "theory" is in fact closer to what scientists term a "hypothesis": An idea that has yet to be conclusively supported. A theory in science, on the other hand, is a logically consistent framework which is formulated to systematically explain observed, related phenomena, and which has been verified experimentally to such an extent that it has come to be widely, or even universally, accepted in the scientific community. Theories are testable and predictive -- it is possible to verify (or disprove) a theory using observations, and it is possible to predict future events using the theory. The theory of gravity, for example, systematically explains observations about planetary movements and falling objects, allows us to predict the movement of planets, and to predict that on a large body (such as a planet), objects will fall towards that body when dropped. As such, the term "theory of evolution" or "Big Bang theory" does not connote that these two frameworks are merely hunches or educated guesses, but that they are widely, nearly universally accepted systems of explanation, supported by firm observable evidence.
(A bit of a personal nit of mine -- this is why I cringe a little bit whenever someone talks about "string theory" -- "string theory" is, in fact, a hypothesis, since it is as of yet unverifiable. It also makes me mutter obscenities under my breath whenever some religious type attacks evolution on grounds that it's "just a theory" -- in scientific terminology, labelling something a "theory" means it's pretty much the best explanation we currently have. Yes, my blood pressure probably is too high.)
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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
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Simon K
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But I have explained to you the difference between a scientific theory, and a religious idea, namely the ability to make falsifiable predictions, which makes scientific theories meaningful, but not religious ideas.
I like to say that the important difference between science and religion is that if a practicioner of science finds solid, conclusive evidence that proves the theory of relativity wrong, he'll get the Nobel Prize, whereas if a practicioner of religion find solid, conclusive evidence that a dogma of his religion is wrong, he will be excommunicated.
Science tends to applaud those who finds the errors in the scientific body of knowledge -- Copernicus, Einstein and Gödel are examples. This is why science will eventually work errors out of the system. Religion tends to treat even wild contradictions as immutable, eternal truths, and effectively resist refinements to their dogma for centuries or millennia.
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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
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Valaggar
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That's because science and religion are very different things with very different aims.
Science starts from what can be perceived and tries to find truths; religion starts from truth/what is assumed as truth (being assumed as divine revelation or another sort of absolute revelation) and provides a way of life based on said truths.
Thus, what is today assumed as truth in science can tomorrow change. Religious truths are absolute within the context of the respective religion - and even wild contradictions can be assumed as true because an entity can be imagined which is above the laws of logic and can warp their functionality.
And if you cease believing in certain points of a specific religion, you've already excommunicated yourself in fact; you're basically creating another religion based on your former religion.
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Elvish Pillager
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Also, don't ever use a Mental Disability as something that can make you "Happy." My mother works at a special needs school as a teaching assistant, and it is not true happiness, what you have just said there is sans politeness to people who do suffer from such disabilities, yes it does make them seem "optimistic" but let me tell you, they can also be wraught with sadness aswell. On the contrary, I would suggest that you not try to go around telling people what examples they may and may not use, especially since you are being reactive rather than reasoning: I would have no problem with you disputing the accuracy of Meep-Eep's statement, but to do it in this overbearing manner and without providing objective evidence is not the right way to go about it. It makes little sense to lump together all "mental disabilities", since what psychologists are willing to classify as a mental disability is rather inconsistent to say the least. You are overgeneralizing from the examples that you personally have experience with...
Also, there are a fair few high functioning Down's Syndrome sufferers, and if they were to read that, they would be very insulted (As I know a fair few as friends). Then by all means, let them be insulted. I have no patience for people who let it get in the way of communication when they feel insulted based on a misinterpretation of what someone said. If someone made a derogatory statement about a "mental disability" I had, then I would be no more irritated than I always am when someone makes a technically incorrect statement. Besides, Meep-Eep's statement is neither derogatory nor technically incorrect. (Note that I am not specifying at this time whether or not I have any "mental disability", Down's syndrome or otherwise.)
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My team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr is the most unfair team ever! My mod |
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Neonlare
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2 Don't say this then. Because it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about here. Learn to quote. I've got no idea what you are refering to.
Alright, here goes.
You used Down's Syndrome as a derogative statement though, did you not say that "if being happy is all what you want in your life to be about then living in a fantasy world is the way to go"? After which you use examples. If by "derogative" you mean that I consider it better not to have Down's syndrome than to do, then you're absolutely right. What is your point?
Wrong, the fact that you coupled it with psychotropic drugs made it seem that you were comparing it with that, which isn't the same because you can't choose to have Down's syndrome.
3 Likewise, theories are just that right now, theories. They can't be proven yet. 3 Oh wait, did we just go full circle here? No, it's just you repeating yourself. You're not actually responding to my arguments.
Because there is no argument in the first place because there is no conclusive evidence of God not existing or existing, like I said, no amount of discussion on these boards will ever change that. Besides, you ignored my posts about the beneficial effects of Religion (altruism, etc) and Outer Body Experiences.
The major reason why I personally believe that the concept of God is beneficial, is that Humans have something to humble themselves to. Without the concept of a being that is higher than you, power would be the alternative "religion" anyone who had power would as such have no consequence to use it for his own will. With the ideas of a God that will punish you for your sins, people who might behave like this won't due to said force.
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 06:55:30 pm by Neonlare »
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"would newton's law theory actually work if a Chmmr Avatar did a backwards pelvic thrust towards a planet and would this constitute an X=Y-0 in the part it ran straight into a Supox Blade and lasted long enough to survive?" - Elerium (as Valaggar)
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