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Topic: Respect my ass (Read 43311 times)
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Shiver
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First I'd like to say that this is a pleasantly suprising topic coming from Meep-Eep. I've heard that in Europe atheism has been picking up a lot of steam recently due to an outright dislike of the American religious right and its effect on the world. Is there any truth to this?
I personally have three major reasons for not hating on the religious people I meet in day-to-day affairs:
1) As a citizen of the United States of America, it would be highly impractical for me to show disdain for religion in general and Christianity in particular. There are WAY more people of the faith here (and fundamentalists) than in Europe. To adopt such a position just isn't viable.
2) There are some serious crazy-ass fuckers like the Scientologists and Mormons* around to make your typical church-going family seem tame.
3) I'm agnostic, not an athiest. I do not share this urge to squeeze the life out of religiousity itself. Although I do appreciate the presence of athiests to serve as a counterbalance to the truly fanatical whack-jobs.
*If you don't believe me that Mormons are fucking weird, do some research. They have to wear magical underwear.
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Cedric6014
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I think it would be extremely presumptuous to assume that atheism in Europe is a result of anti-Americanism. America is not so important a country as to affect people’s belief in God by merely having more religious fundamentalists. NZ is probably the world’s most secular country. Usually it’s not because we dislike religious folks, more because it’s been a while since we last went to church and we’ve simply forgotten what all the fuss was about – and we don’t miss it! Personally I’m an agnostic – which frankly is quite pathetic.
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Shiver
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I think it would be extremely presumptuous to assume that atheism in Europe is a result of anti-Americanism. America is not so important a country as to affect people’s belief in God by merely having more religious fundamentalists. NZ is probably the world’s most secular country. Usually it’s not because we dislike religious folks, more because it’s been a while since we last went to church and we’ve simply forgotten what all the fuss was about – and we don’t miss it! Personally I’m an agnostic – which frankly is quite pathetic.
Oh I know it's presumptious. A little arrogant too. But I bet there's truth to it. Our obnoxious foreign policy kind of forces other people to deal with us whether they like it or not. There's got to be an element of "OKAY GUYS, LET'S TRY NOT TO BE ANYTHING LIKE THOSE JERKS ACROSS THE WATER" to this.
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Valaggar
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What's the lesson in that? No matter how unreasonable you are, have faith and your wishes will come true? The tree is meant to symbolize the Jewish people, who didn't recognize the Messiah. So Jesus curses the Jewish people? I think I liked him better getting mad at a tree. Edit: fix quoting tags |
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Shiver
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You are trying to undermine my point, but I'm basically correct. They do have "magical" underwear. (Safe for work)
There are special symbols sewn into them. Two on the chest, one on the knee, and one about belly button level. I think.
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xenoclone
*Many bubbles*
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Meh, I don't buy that Mormons are more crazy than any other Christians. I used to live in Utah, and have lots of Mormon relatives. The only reason they seem weird is because we don't hear as much about their traditions. Plenty of wacky crap in vanilla Christianity as well, imo, we're just used to it. But as far as behavior/day-to-day stuff goes, I'd say Mormons if anything more boring than most other cultures.... trust me, they're not as spooky, weird, or exciting as people imagine. They're just Christians with a little extra religious text, which has stuff like telling people to avoid "strong drink." Ooooh, freaky! 
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RTyp06
*Smell* controller
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I'm all for treating people with at least basic decency, and I'm all for tolerating things that do not hurt anyone, but why should we respect anyone's beliefs?
What "having faith" means is "I don't actually know anything of this, but it feels right, so I'm going to behave as it is true." Why is that worthy of respect?
I can see how it deserves fear, or ridiculing, or perhaps feeling sorry for, but why would it deserve respect? On what grounds?
I respect the street preacher for being out there all day long, every day, regardless of the weather, but I don't respect him for his preachings, and I certainly don't respect the preachings themselves.
To hell with political correctness.
Meep, aren't you sanctioning bigotry in a way?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
1st) My original quote was referring to Richard Dawkins who, unlike us, is a public figure. Thus his responsibilities are different than ours imo. I believe he should show some sensitivity to others no matter how "misinformed" or unfounded their faith may be. Especially if he expects to make his scientific case in areas that conflict with religious belief.
2nd) It also seems that ,following your post here, I should be able to rip on homosexuals because biologically speaking it's "wrong" or a biological mistake of some sort. And furthermore it is somthing I do not understand, just as Dawkins doesn't understand those with "irrational" faith over logic.
You are right that we don't have to respect the message, I was referring to respecting the messenger him/herself as a human being.
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Shiver
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It also seems that ,following your post here, I should be able to rip on homosexuals because biologically speaking it's "wrong" or a biological mistake of some sort.
That's a very flimsy argument. How do you know that the presence of homosexuality is suboptimal for a species? If a small portion of males aren't competing for females (and vice versa), that may have a stabilizing effect on society.
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xenoclone
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It also seems that ,following your post here, I should be able to rip on homosexuals because biologically speaking it's "wrong" or a biological mistake of some sort. That's a very flimsy argument. How do you know that the presence of homosexuality is suboptimal for a species? If a small portion of males aren't competing for females (and vice versa), that may have a stabilizing effect on society.
I have to agree with Shiver here. We don't really know what impact homosexuality has on the gene pool of a species.
Back on topic:
You know I once went to a short seminar given by our university's campus crusade. It was a heart surgeon speaking on behalf on ID. Long story short, the guy was terrible. He had no clue how evolution worked, used classic (and easily defeated) ID arguments, and just flat out said stupid things. Now the crowd, obviously probably all very religious outside of myself, just ate it up. I thought it was sad because the uneducated was teaching the uneducated. (Goes to show you can be a competent adult and still be clueless about biology.)
Now, I'm all for people exploring the shortcomings of evolutionary theory, but until there's some actual science behind ID, I don't think it deserves the same respect as the theory of evolution.
Though I will say guys like Richard Dawkins are not helping the cause. I don't think there's anything stupid about religion (even if some people do stupid things in its name). So I think he tends to preach the the converted, much like the aforementioned ID speaker, rather than appeal to those who disagree with him. There just seems to be a big lack of uniting voices these days.
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