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Question: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
Kohr-Ah
Kzer-Za
Both
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Author Topic: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?  (Read 10568 times)
Valaggar
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2007, 07:49:12 pm »

Well, in fact your last simplification (the one at the bottom) got rid of some important parts in the reasoning.

To respond to your question - I said "simpler for me" - I mean, if I wrote it in the complicated way (the one at the top), I didn't have to torture my brain to find a simple way of expressing myself.
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Lukipela
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2007, 08:01:40 pm »

Well, in fact your last simplification (the one at the bottom) got rid of some important parts in the reasoning.

To respond to your question - I said "simpler for me" - I mean, if I wrote it in the complicated way (the one at the top), I didn't have to torture my brain to find a simple way of expressing myself.

Ah, I understand. Still, when communicating with others it might be good to keep in mind that if the message is not clear it might not be received. Also, what did my last simplification omit?
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Valaggar
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2007, 02:32:03 pm »

Quote from: Lukipela
Also, what did my last simplification omit?
You said simply, "The Kzer-Za are more traumatized than the Kohr-Ah, despite the Kohr-Ah being more evil". In fact, it was "The Kzer-Za may be more traumatized than the Kohr-Ah, despite the Kohr-Ah being more evil, because more traumatized means <<more changed in comparison to their initial state>>; knowing just the final state isn't enough to be able to say what is the difference between the initial state and the final state."
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2007, 09:14:19 pm »

The Kzer-Za are more evil, anyway.
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Death 999
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2007, 09:31:20 pm »

But the Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za were initially indistinct, and only rendered distinct due to the (traumatic) influence of the Dnyarri.

So Valaggar's 'delta' argument fails because there is no initial delta.
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EP, how do you figure?
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2007, 09:54:33 pm »

EP, how do you figure?
In essence: Once you're dead, you don't suffer anymore.

If the Kohr-Ah get their way, they make one tour of the galaxy and the 'evil' is essentially over. Sentient races take a long time to evolve, and they could prevent that from happening in the first place. The Kohr-Ah wipe out everyone once, and then live reasonably as the galaxy's sole race for much longer.

The Kzer-Za, on the other hand, intend to keep other races around as their slaves. They will let more and more generations of these races be born, wasting their sentience, only to force them to work for the petty gain of the Ur-Quan. This process is to go on forever, with any newly evolved races being added to the Hierarchy.
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2007, 12:35:50 am »

I think it's less evil to wish to subjugate all life than to completely eradicate all life from existence. Even if their thralls and fallow slaves aren't free, at least they haven't been completely eradicated from existence. Furthermore, you're assuming a lot that we don't know. Their circuit around the galaxy takes a long time - it's quite possible that more sentient life has evolved in places that the Kohr-ah left in ruins.

Also, the Kzer-za are clearly more merciful in the Kohr-ah. In addition to not believing in completely exterminating life, they say some interesting things when they lose the war. They don't even attack you and tell you to run, saying things "We, who have tried to protect you" and "I hope your species survives."
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Valaggar
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2007, 02:20:27 pm »

Quote from: Death 999
But the Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za were initially indistinct, and only rendered distinct due to the (traumatic) influence of the Dnyarri.

So Valaggar's 'delta' argument fails because there is no initial delta.
That's what I thought at first too, but then I realized that the initial moment may be the moment when the Kohr-Ah and the Kzer-Za were separated, not when the original Ur-Quan were enslaved.
You see, that is the initial point of existence of their twin species, not the one in which they evolved on their homeworld.


I wonder why nobody got into play this argument: The Kohr-Ah reaction to you having the Dnyarri aboard is far deeper than the one of the Kzer-Za: it brings up the creature's ancestral memories, while at the Kzer-Za it is not even powerful enough to stop them from detecting the "source of these fetid emanations" as your vessel, and issuing a warning.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the most probable thing is that both are almost equally traumatized, too similar in order for us to be able to tell exactly who is more traumatized.
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Lukipela
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2007, 07:43:08 pm »

In fact, it was "The Kzer-Za may be more traumatized than the Kohr-Ah, despite the Kohr-Ah being more evil, because more traumatized means <<more changed in comparison to their initial state>>; knowing just the final state isn't enough to be able to say what is the difference between the initial state and the final state."

And there you have a much more simple and readable version than that technobabble. Next time just say that.
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Re: Who are the most traumatized, the Kohr-Ah or the Kzer-Za?
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2007, 03:59:08 pm »

Thought they were both bent screws myself, and haven't really figured out which screw is more bent.  In valgar's terms you can't see how broken they are because we have no clear indication of their initial state.  Even if it exists in their genetically-tinkered new colourful selves.  I remember pitying both of them after I learned enough of their story.

I wonder if anything special happens if you both let the Kor-Ah rampage and don't capture the Dynarri... a potential end even worse than 'everyone dies,' in my opinion.
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