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Valaggar
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Ground weaponry
« on: May 14, 2007, 02:36:05 pm »

I have a really interesting question in my mind for some time. Which is - what weapons would Star Control races use for ground combat? Yes, modern wars are all fought in space, but there are still outlaws on planets and, why not, even insurrections, such as the Morality Riots. Also, in the race's past, same-species wars had to be done in some way.

Below is a list of the ground weapons as I imagine them:

- Androsynth: Weird weapons for sure, just as the weapons of their ships. Maybe... force field grenades (grenades that activate a force shield upon detonation which effectively "cuts" anything at its exact blast range - i.e. on the verge of the force shield) and a very sticky goo which solidifies almost instantly. And valagguns (railguns which fire a projectile with a very sharp tip and a corrosive/inflammatory coating, useful against the fuel reservoirs of vehicles and other similar targets)

- Burvixese: Turtles. That means dependency on vehicles. Slow and heavy ones with accurate targeting, probably a turtle-like vehicle with one or more turrets with traditional sniper rifles.

- Chenjesu: That electric arc should do it.

- Chmmr: Best of the best from Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm. Electrolasers, EMP grenades etc.

- Dnyarri: If they really need to fight (Taalo), they're too lazy to do it themselves.

- Druuge: They don't value life (even Druuge life) too much (unless it's their own life). A lot of cheap cannon-fodder infantry with primitive melee weapons augmented by big&heavy vehicles with cannons with a large detonation radius.

- Ilwrath: Flamethrowers of course. Probably with invisibility webs (at least some of them).

- Melnorme: Red/purple coilgun (gauss rifle) bots (reason: the bots have to precede Keel-Verezy weapon system, and that system is anyway too heavy; also, the coilgun is a good all-around weapon)

- Mmrnmhrm: Probably lasers and grenades, since they look like that sort of Daleks, err... robots.

- Orz Marines: Bazookas of course. And for very close quarters combat, chest-mounted pikes stabbing their foes with fearsome speed. The kind of quick yet brutal strength characteristic to the Orz weaponry.

- Pkunk: Pkunk soldiers are the best in the galaxy. They have the best of all weapons:


Love.

After all, this is what they have won their assimilation war against the Yehat with.

- Shofixti: Katana-rushers, since that's what they probably used in their past feudal society, and they didn't have any reason to upgrade. Plus, after all, that's what the Japanese samurai did - remained with the noble sword, even if they had guns, and gave the guns to the ashigaru.

- Slylandro: Yeah, if they could get themselves off-source in pressurized suits, the destruction of such a suit would cause a huge explosion (and the pressurization system would be large and heavy too), thus they have to use very heavy vehicles with similarly heavy weaponry - "pressure-based" weaponry, probably some sort of long-ranged "force field punch" capable of throwing the Pentagon in the other side of the city.

 - Spathi: Howitzers. At least that's what Hayes says: "Imagine facing a cowardly, mobile clam armed with a howitzer and you've got a good idea of what it's like dealing with a Spathi."

Plus, they go well with the idea of shooting from a safe distance.

- Supox: They want their enemies to dry out and get uprooted. Heat-based weaponry. They love heat.

- Syreen: The knife on their uniform, of course. And the "hidden functionality" of their uniform, seemingly a self-moralizing feature (he he he). That's why they, umm, enjoy fighting.

I'd bet that their knife is coated with hormones.

- Thraddash: Time has proven that the best weapon in a strong arm, since those kind of people usually have the most success in any dealing on Delta Draconis I, thus being the most powerful.

- Umgah: Living weapons with organic ammunition and genetically-engineered warrior pets.

- Ur-Quan (original): They have very large bodies, thus being very easy targets, thus leading to the development of (very) heavy body armor, vehicles and weapons. Rocket launchers, missiles, fusion blasters, fusion beams (like the one used to destroy the Burvixese cities).

- Utwig: Wielded energy spears, since they are too heavy to be lauched, and also I see them as some sort of thrown lightsabers, not bolts of energy. Plus, imagine a robed and masked Utwig elegantly swinging such a spear... it looks amazing. Vehicles should have energy spear cannons with absorption shields, much like the ships.

Hey, Utwig already have that Jedi parting phrase, "May the Ultron [i.e. Force] be with you!". This would make them even more Jedi.

- VUX: Goo grenades, laser cannons. And a Repulsive Look.

- Yehat: Crossbows, arrow-proof vest - allow mobility and easy flight. Vehicles: Ion pulse ornithopters; light-weight and drawing their inspiration from Yehat wings.

- Zoq-Fot-Pik: Piks launch (Frungy-)ball-shaped grenades and Zoqs have machine guns. Fots pilot vehicles, since they pilot the Stinger.

The Arilou are also too alien and too IDF to have weapons that we can understand.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 06:42:19 pm by Valaggar » Logged
Draxas
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2007, 06:00:33 pm »

I think, at the very least, that the Thraddash make it perfectly clear that they fight all of their modern ground wars with thermonuclear bombardments. Barring that, they sink to the level of mere biological weapons.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 07:11:19 pm »

I wouldn't particularly imagine ground combat to be particularly effective when orbital bombardment is possible. One might make an argument that someone would want to take a world for themselves, but since there are so many uninhabited planets in the sector that Star Control II takes place in, especially planets that have life on them and loads of resources, I wouldn't quite imagine you'd have a desperate need to take a world. Perhaps there could be some minor ground wars, but if you could get a precision weapon to work from orbit, the point would be moot. The most fighting you'd see is some minor hand to hand combat, but that would not decide a war. The big ships floating overhead would.

Anyway, this is how I figured the various races might fight on the ground:

Arilou: They'd have some means to warp around a lot. Nothing really physical, just accurate laser firing before they teleport. Kinda like their ships.

Androsynth: They're not around anymore, but i'd imagine them to have more advanced weapons than the humans did. We don't know if the nuclear bazookas that the cities looked like they were destroyed by were owned by Androsynth or by Orz. It would fit Androsynth, though.

Chenjesu: They'd probably sloooowly hover towards you and discharge electricity. Looks like what they do with their ship's controls, anyway.

Chmmr: Most likely a mix of the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm's combat styles. Accurate, heavy hitting fire. Instead of floating towards the enemy, they'd probably have a tractor beam device that could work on ground level so they could pull the enemy to them.

Dnyarri: Flowers are beautiful, and smell nice. Now be a good human and -<LEAVE ME ALONE!>-

Druuge: They'd get their slaves to do it for them. Otherwise, long range bazookas. That's what the Mauler seems to be, anyway.

Humans: Rifles, lasers, rockets. Whatever you can imagine. You know the cliches by now.

Ilwrath: Flamethrowers? Why would they want to cook you when they can instead capture you and torture you alive? You don't get prisoners of war with flamethrowers. They'd probably find ways to hurt you horribly and then capture you for future disection.

Melnorme: Maybe something that charges, but we don't know if their Keel-Verezy friends gave them something that could be used in ground combat. I'd see them more likely to run away or negotiate a deal to leave them alone. They seem too neutral to want conflict.

Mmrnmhrm: I doubt they'd want a ground war. The potential casualties would be serious, since they can't make more of themselves. Thus, i'd suspect only long range bombardment and accurate strikes when they get close.

Orz: Ground war? Why do they have to fight? Once they get your *smell*, there's no need to *dance* and see their *surprising toys*. You're just going to get dragged to *below*, where i'm sure there's plenty of Lovecraftian horror and non-Euclidean geometry to rock your socks off. And drive you insane.

Pkunk: Pacifists. I don't see them as fighters. They didn't really react to the Ilwrath's attacks, so why would they react to being beaten the crap out of? Would be a pretty funny sight, though.

Shofixti: Katanas, cheap laser pistols, and suicide bombs... just in case.

Slylandro: If they could somehow get themselves off Source, possibly in some sort of self contained suit, one can only imagine the possibilities. I wonder if they'd have some sort of electric discharge ability. They'd all be fragile, though.

Spathi: I don't see them fighting. They couldn't fight off the Evil Ones, which were just a bunch of cuddly teddy bears, so if you scare them good enough they'll run far, far away.

Supox: Plant based weaponry? I don't know enough about them. Oh well.

Syreen: They'd charm you before you even got on their planet. Fighting for them would be avoidable at all costs until they've replenished their species.

Thraddash: THEY are a race that I can actually see as ground fighters. No real tactics or anything, they'd just run at you like a horde of barbarians with crude weaponry.

Umgah: Biological weapons and dirty bombs. Radiaction sickness ensues. Har! Har! Har!

Ur-Quan: The Kzer-Za think everything over, and the Kohr-Ah fight, possibly with weapons that rely more on mass and kinetic force than energy blasts.

Utwig: Not entirely sure as to what they'd do, but every time the Jugger turns its shields on, the Utwig's pendant glows. Maybe the pendant could be used by an Utwig to make themselves and whatever they're inside invulnerable when they concentrate on it.

VUX: The last word in life form destruction, of course. They'd slowly slither over to you and fire their lasers, and possibly have a small scale version of the limpet parasites as well.

Yehat: Almost definately going to fly around you, maybe firing some weapons really fast before flying away and going at it again.

Zoq-Fot-Pik: Their entire starfleet can't defeat a single Kohr-Ah marauder, and their planets were devastated because of the war. What makes you think they'll even be able to do anything against the ground forces of other races?

Well, anyway, that was looooong. Would be interesting if someone made a Star Control RTS, though, so we can actually implement this. I might try to if I can find some time over my summer vacation.
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Valaggar
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2007, 08:14:43 pm »

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Ilwrath: Flamethrowers?
Oops. That's What I Deserve For Reserving The Ilwrath Only Ten Seconds Of Reflection. I Must Proceed To The Ceremonial Removal Of My Limbs. <xxx> AIEEEEE! AAAAAAAAAARGH!

Quote from: KanmuX
They'd have some means to warp around a lot.
Flying saucers always must raise high in the air before teleporting away. They can't HyperSpace from the surface of a planet - the gravity pulls them back into TrueSpace.

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Chenjesu: They'd probably sloooowly hover towards you and discharge electricity.
Not the sort of enemy I'd like to fight... Sinister.

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Mmrnmhrm: I'd suspect only long range bombardment and accurate strikes when they get close.
Yeah... I was mostly focusing on the kind of built-in weapons they should have.

Quote
Orz: Ground war? Why do they have to fight?
Orz Marines don't *snag*. You must first see the Orz so that you are seen.

Quote
Zoq-Fot-Pik: Their entire starfleet can't defeat a single Kohr-Ah marauder, and their planets were devastated because of the war. What makes you think they'll even be able to do anything against the ground forces of other races?
They do have some weapons, anyway, for sure - just as they have Stingers. Just not enough of them.

Quote
Utwig: Not entirely sure as to what they'd do, but every time the Jugger turns its shields on, the Utwig's pendant glows. Maybe the pendant could be used by an Utwig to make themselves and whatever they're inside invulnerable when they concentrate on it.
Or maybe it's just a very reflective jewel. A personal shield would interfere with their skin.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2007, 08:40:14 am »

Quote from: Valaggar
Or maybe it's just a very reflective jewel. A personal shield would interfere with their skin.

Interfere with their skin?  What?  How does that work?

Quote
Zoq-Fot-Pik: Their entire starfleet can't defeat a single Kohr-Ah marauder, and their planets were devastated because of the war. What makes you think they'll even be able to do anything against the ground forces of other races?

They did defeat the Zebranky.  That had to take something, especially since nither the Zoq, Fot, or Pik seems to have any natural weapons, and the Zebranky is something that slavers.  Slavers as in "slavering Zebranky''.  That's said somewhere by the blue one.  Pik, right?

My turn to guess.

Androsynth: Similar to Human stuff, but more advanced.

Arilou: We couldn't even comprehend it.

Chenjesu: Electrically-based, for sure.

Chmmr: Electrical with addition of powerful lasers.

Druuge: Send their slaves in to fight, and I'd expect that they'd use some sort of high-speed weapon.

Humans: duh.

Ilwrath: Vicious knives, swords, and claw-type weapons, for maximum pain.

Kohr-Ah: I'd imagine that both Ur-Quan have some sort of powerful laser cannon that can be mounted on their massive bodies somewhere.  See: this picture

Melnorme: Vehicular, definitely.  I can't see those little guys doing much other than driving.

Mmrnmhrm: Lasers.

Mycon: They only seem to take out ground creatures with Deep Children.  I don't think they have any other than that.

Orz: Continuous laser cannons on the arms of their combat suits.

Pkunk: Them?  Weapons?  Nah.

Shofixti: Katanas and Glory Devices.

Slylandro: Even of they could, it doesn't seem like they would.

Spathi: As Hayes said, rarely-used Howitzers.

Supox: Biologically-grown corrosive goo guns.

Syreen: Similar to 21st-Century human.

Thraddash: Fists, barring the proper thermonuclear exchange.

Umgah: Bio-lasers and such

Ur-Quan: See Kohr-Ah.

Utwig: Mostly, it depends on what the Ultron tells them to use.

VUX: I could imagine them using any number of devastating weapons.  Foremost in my mind is something sharp and metal.

Yehat: Lead bullets, so long as it can be used in a dogfight without flight loss.

Zoq-Fot-Pik: Not much.  I could imagine them having a good command of medieval siege weaponry, however.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2007, 01:22:38 pm »

Mycon, Slylandro, and Thraddash don't live on planets that are habitable to other races, so they wouldn't fight other races in ground combat. (Mycon planets are too hot, the Slylandro planet is a gas giant, and Thraddash planets are covered in nuclear and biological waste.)

Melnorme don't even live on planets.

Mycon, Androsynth, Arilou, Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm, and Orz are united enough that they wouldn't fight against their own race. Since ground combat is no longer necessary once space combat is invented, none of these races would have ground combat weapons.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2007, 02:03:07 pm »

Mycon, Slylandro, and Thraddash don't live on planets that are habitable to other races, so they wouldn't fight other races in ground combat. (Mycon planets are too hot, the Slylandro planet is a gas giant, and Thraddash planets are covered in nuclear and biological waste.)
Ever heard of heat-proof suits and vehicles for hot worlds and anti-radiation suits and vehicles for the Thraddash homeworld? Plus, nobody said that the Thraddash world is covered in waste. They wanted to use thermonuclear weapons against Culture 18, but the Ur-Quan stopped them, so they had to use poison instead. However, nobody said that they had used nukes before. Also, if the Thraddash attack, the combat doesn't take place on Delta Draconis I.

In addition:
1) Ground weaponry doesn't mean necessarily that the combat takes place on a race's homeworld.
2) This thread is a "what-if" thread, it is not concerned with actual ground weaponry of the various races.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2007, 03:37:49 pm »

Ur-Quan: Make their slaves fight. How do you propose to keep two or more Ur-Quan from killing each other on sight because of their ridiculous terriroriality? (Slaves don't count, they aren't people anyway.)
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2007, 04:35:46 pm »

2) This thread is a "what-if" thread, it is not concerned with actual ground weaponry of the various races.
Quote from: Valaggar, at the beginning of the thread
I have a really interesting question in my mind for some time. Which is - what weapons do Star Control races use for ground combat?
Roll Eyes
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2007, 05:51:32 pm »

OK, fixed. Don't heed every word of mine, I tend to swallow some worlds at times.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2007, 05:53:51 pm »

I tend to swallow some worlds at times.
Grin
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2007, 05:56:11 pm »

Argh! And to vomit some others, as well...
This one I will not "fix".

EDIT: I clearly remember having typed "words". Must be reality aberrations... I should remember not to play with every IDF toy I find.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2007, 04:34:40 pm »

Here's my 2 cents. Certian races don't fight on ground level. The Arloo, for instance, would consider combat to be to vulgar. Instead they'd just disapear and reapear at their enemies shoulder, whisper suggestions in their ear, and make their enemies fight each other.

The Kohr-Ah only fight other Kohr-Ah, and then it's hand to hand, er tenticle to tenticle, as they rip each other apart. For anybody else the intimidate slaves into fighting for them.

Everyone mentioned above the shofixti using katanas and glory divices strapped to their backs. I thought this would be a good time to revive the picture I drew of Shofixti, the first warrior of the Shofixti race that strapped a glory device to his back in ancient times and from whome the Shofixti gets their name.

In his hand is the detination bead. Break it and he's got a 2 minute fuse. For the first minute and a half he's still got time to pull out the fuse, after that the fight will end in an explosion. Being the increabale warrior he was most fights were over in less than 45 seconds. However, one thief thought to end the noble Shofixti with his own weapon and engaged Shofixti in a fight. Shofixti lit his fuse and he and the thief battled. However, when the fuse burned out of Shofixti's reach the thief then tried to run thinking to escape the blast radius. But Shofixt gave chase, captured the members of the thiefs band that were posted to allow their leader to escape, roped the head thief around his neck and tied the lot to the glory device. The blast left a crater 4 meters across and destroyed the most notirous band of thieves known.

His courage, bravery, as well as his philosophy of glory in battle, glory in death, formed the basis of Shofixti society.

Sorry, kinda went off there.
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Valaggar
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2007, 06:43:33 pm »

Added Androsynth, Burvixese, Chenjesu, Chmmr, Dnyarri, Druuge, Slylandro and Supox.
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Re: Ground weaponry
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2007, 06:02:13 pm »

Here's my 2 cents. Certian races don't fight on ground level. The Arloo, for instance, would consider combat to be to vulgar. Instead they'd just disapear and reapear at their enemies shoulder, whisper suggestions in their ear, and make their enemies fight each other.

While I'm aware that we're having a hypothetical discussion about fictional characters in a what-if case, I've never seen any indication that the Arilou can teleport themselves. Their vessels don't work very well close to strong gravity sources (as was mentioned earlier), so I doubt a personal teleporter would be useful on the ground (in space however...) But on the other hand, I'm sure they have some quite impressive stealth capabilities, they've been sneaking around Earth for quite some time (supposedly).

Quote
The Kohr-Ah only fight other Kohr-Ah, and then it's hand to hand, er tenticle to tenticle, as they rip each other apart. For anybody else the intimidate slaves into fighting for them.

I assume you mean Kzer-Za here. Still, the Kohr-Ah seem to be perfectly happy with incinerating people from above.

Quote
Everyone mentioned above the shofixti using katanas and glory divices strapped to their backs. I thought this would be a good time to revive the picture I drew of Shofixti, the first warrior of the Shofixti race that strapped a glory device to his back in ancient times and from whome the Shofixti gets their name.
[IMG]COOL IMAGE[img]
In his hand is the detination bead. Break it and he's got a 2 minute fuse. For the first minute and a half he's still got time to pull out the fuse, after that the fight will end in an explosion. Being the increabale warrior he was most fights were over in less than 45 seconds. However, one thief thought to end the noble Shofixti with his own weapon and engaged Shofixti in a fight. Shofixti lit his fuse and he and the thief battled. However, when the fuse burned out of Shofixti's reach the thief then tried to run thinking to escape the blast radius. But Shofixt gave chase, captured the members of the thiefs band that were posted to allow their leader to escape, roped the head thief around his neck and tied the lot to the glory device. The blast left a crater 4 meters across and destroyed the most notirous band of thieves known.

His courage, bravery, as well as his philosophy of glory in battle, glory in death, formed the basis of Shofixti society.

Sorry, kinda went off there.

Love the picture, although I haven't heard the story before.
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