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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Author Topic: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan  (Read 7825 times)
Elvish Pillager
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Re: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2007, 02:37:57 pm »

These are clearly well inside the definition...
I simply can't comprehend what kind of a definition includes everything in my second list and nothing in my first list.

You don't seem to experience any negative sensations due to mental compulsion,
Yes, you do.

The humans who returned from the human/syreen crew exchange were clearly traumatized, as were the Umgah, certainly the Ur-Quan... in fact, I don't know of a single person/alien who was subject to mental compulsion in the Star Control universe who had the chance to complain afterwards and didn't.
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My team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr is the most unfair team ever!
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Valaggar
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Re: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2007, 03:48:47 pm »

Quote
I simply can't comprehend what kind of a definition includes everything in my second list and nothing in my first list.
In fact, it includes half of the things from your first list. When I wrote "Well, these are not suffering examples." I accidentally deleted "edge case suffering examples" or something like that, I suppose. Included are:
- being forced to see things clearly when it's easier to remain ignorant. (it is suffering, but not necessarily evil)
- physical pain when you are detached enough that you can ignore it easily.
- being stopped from taking something you really really want. (it is suffering, but not necessarily evil)
- being stopped from taking something you really really want when it would only hurt you. (it is suffering, but not necessarily evil)
Even the others, with a bit of extrapolation, can be interpreted as suffering, as they lead to suffering.

For easiness, here are the definitions (the first one is not complete):
1. An evil act is, generally, whatever makes someone (including you, though if you have to choose between your suffering and another person's suffering, you should choose yours, of course) suffer eventually (suffering with a good goal is not evil).
2. Suffering is anything you don't like.
3. An evil person is a person who commits evil acts while having other alternatives and while knowing that the acts are evil.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 03:52:49 pm by Valaggar » Logged
Elvish Pillager
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Re: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2007, 03:56:21 pm »

For easiness, here are the definitions:
1. An evil act is whatever makes someone (including you, though if you have to choose between your suffering and another person's suffering, you should choose yours, of course) suffer eventually (suffering with a good goal is not evil).
2. Suffering is anything you don't like.
Okay, now I can criticize the definitions.
1. Far too broad. Any action that makes any difference to anyone is likely to lead to _some_ suffering (though potentally more good.) Also, this definition doesn't include instant vaporization of an entire race as evil (assuming the race hadn't been discovered by other races, so there was no one to care about them.)
2. Uh. It includes some ridiculous things; I don't like cell phones, therefore cell phones are suffering? Modified definition: "Suffering is anything that happens to you that you don't like." Well... I don't like you posting this valaggary material at me... but I wouldn't say being posted at in this manner constitutes suffering...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 03:58:23 pm by Elvish Pillager » Logged

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Re: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2007, 04:20:44 pm »

The correct spelling is "Valaggary", not "valaggary".
Also, it's not Valaggary. It doesn't fit any of the two definitions:
1. to overthink a simple premise (particularly pertaining to Star Control) - actually you are overthinking a simple premise by asking for a definition of evil
2. to exhibit enthusiasm in generous proportion to the value of a topic of discussion/issue (particularly pertaining to Star Control) - doesn't seem to fit.

Also, nobody forces you to reply if you don't like it. You're evil.  Grin
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 04:37:49 pm by Valaggar » Logged
Elvish Pillager
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Re: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2007, 05:04:42 pm »

...wonderful way to not respond to a post. Roll Eyes Is it just me or have you gotten even more annoying since you put on that Utwig mask?
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Valaggar
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Re: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2007, 07:49:21 pm »

Quote from: Elvish Pillager
Is it just me or have you gotten even more annoying since you put on that Utwig mask?
It's probably the voice. Turn the speech off. Buy more thrusters if you want to avoid me altogether.
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waywardoctagon
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Re: The Villainy of the Ur-Quan
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2007, 08:08:11 am »

At this point, I would like to draw a (very) loose parallel between the Ur-Quan and Gollum.  I mean, look at them:

*Started out ordinary, then discovered something of great evil that took control of and twisted them--both mentally and physically--and gave them a...
*Dual nature--although the Ur-Quan's two natures are very different from, and relate to each other differently than Gollum's
*Pitiable for what they are, though some don't (pity them, that is)
*Villains
*Guard something that must be destroyed


Eh?  Obviously there are differences (their goals, for one thing--and of course the Ur-Quan are much more sinister and started out less peaceful (and I think their story is rather more tragic)) but there are strong similarities, as well.
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