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Author Topic: stupid argument  (Read 16516 times)
Elvish Pillager
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stupid argument
« on: July 14, 2007, 11:12:19 pm »

Just as every culture and every person has religious views. (Yes athieism is religion as it serves the same purpose imo.)
I don't have religious views. I'm not religious, I'm not an atheist.

Yes you do. You have an idea of how us humans fit into this universe which is esentially what religion is . But  I don't want to derail this man's thread. We should take it elsewhere if further discussion is warranted..

What makes you think I have an idea of how humans fit into this universe? As far as I can tell, I have got no idea whatsoever how humans fit into the universe, and am not particularly keen on getting such an idea.
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2007, 12:40:52 am »

Firstly, RTyp06 does indeed sound like a fool.

Secondly, we've had a converastion on this before. A person is either athiest, agnostic or religous. Denying that you are all three (which you, Elvish Pillager, have done) is just as idiotic as what he's doing. Rejecting labels will not change the fact that everyone else uses them. I too am a non-believer but the labels people use to categorize faith are still of use to me.
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RTyp06
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2007, 01:25:14 am »

Quote
What makes you think I have an idea of how humans fit into this universe? As far as I can tell, I have got no idea whatsoever how humans fit into the universe, and am not particularly keen on getting such an idea.

So.. you've never contemplated the meaning of life, why are we here and so on.. ?

The idea is that there are many parallels between music and religion. They've both been around since the dawn of man. They both fulfill humans in some way. For whatever reason music appeals to all of us. Obviously both had to be invented but they both remian very popular. I have yet to meet a person who does not like music of some sort. Likewise we all have a world view and how we fit into it imo. We may not know the answers but that basic need is there. The desire to know is there.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 01:28:50 am by RTyp06 » Logged
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2007, 01:50:56 am »

So.. you've never contemplated the meaning of life, why are we here and so on.. ?

Pondering over life does not instantly equate to religion. As the topic name says, "stupid argument".
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Neonlare
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2007, 02:06:20 am »

Firstly, RTyp06 does indeed sound like a fool.

Secondly, we've had a converastion on this before. A person is either athiest, agnostic or religous. Denying that you are all three (which you, Elvish Pillager, have done) is just as idiotic as what he's doing. Rejecting labels will not change the fact that everyone else uses them. I too am a non-believer but the labels people use to categorize faith are still of use to me.

I'd say you're missing "Other," someone who acknowledges the belief of an afterlife, etc, but does not worship any religion in order to attain "points for the afterlife." That means not worshiping any Bibles, Scriptures, or any figure heads, but saying that yes, there must be something after death.

Personally, I loathe it when Atheists and Religious people try firing warheads at one another over the internet, as neither can decide whether or not there is something after Death. It feels like the two are just kicking a cow to death, because you can't really say "this is how it is and that's final" because you can't, the "String Theory" relies on an alternate Dimension, which could be just as implausible as the theory of "God." It's something you can't actually prove yet, despite the fact that it supposedly is there and affects the laws of Physics, etc, etc, etc.

Plus you make Pkunks sad.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 02:08:04 am by Neonlare » Logged

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Elvish Pillager
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2007, 02:15:05 am »

So.. you've never contemplated the meaning of life
Meaning of life, eh? Words have meanings, because we need a simple symbol - a word - to refer to a much more complicated concept. Simple symbols, complicated meanings. Life is a really complicated concept in the first place, so it doesn't make sense for it to have a meaning.

People who look for the "meaning of life" are looking for a simple answer to the complex world we live in. There isn't one.

why are we here and so on.. ?
I reckon we're here because it was evolutionarily advantageous for our ape ancestors to have a powerful mind capable of arguing on the Internet. I don't believe that counts as religion.
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2007, 02:17:20 am »

I'd say you're missing "Other," someone who acknowledges the belief of an afterlife, etc, but does not worship any religion in order to attain "points for the afterlife." That means not worshiping any Bibles, Scriptures, or any figure heads, but saying that yes, there must be something after death.

That's an agnostic. You're telling me you've never heard the term before?
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Neonlare
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2007, 02:20:57 am »

I'd say you're missing "Other," someone who acknowledges the belief of an afterlife, etc, but does not worship any religion in order to attain "points for the afterlife." That means not worshiping any Bibles, Scriptures, or any figure heads, but saying that yes, there must be something after death.

That's an agnostic. You're telling me you've never heard the term before?

I have, but not usually used in that term, I've usually heard it for someone who basically doesn't know whether or not there is a God, etc. Besides, that wasn't my only point <_<.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2007, 02:22:15 am »

That's an agnostic. You're telling me you've never heard the term before?
Agnostics believe that it can't be determined whether there's an afterlife. What Neonlare is describing is a person who believes in an afterlife, but doesn't subscribe to any organized religion. I'd consider that person religious.
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Neonlare
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2007, 02:23:19 am »

That's an agnostic. You're telling me you've never heard the term before?
Agnostics believe that it can't be determined whether there's an afterlife. What Neonlare is describing is a person who believes in an afterlife, but doesn't subscribe to any organized religion. I'd consider that person religious.

Eh, Religion is basically an order that someone follows, what I'm saying is that someone who doesn't follow any particular religion, yet believes in some form of after life, I think the term for it is Gnostic, but I'm not sure.
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Cedric6014
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2007, 02:26:37 am »

Yeah, I consider myself agnostic. I really don't know if there is an afterlife or not. If there is I hope they have Star Control and Cadbury Black Forest chocolate
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2007, 02:28:49 am »

That's an agnostic. You're telling me you've never heard the term before?
Agnostics believe that it can't be determined whether there's an afterlife. What Neonlare is describing is a person who believes in an afterlife, but doesn't subscribe to any organized religion. I'd consider that person religious.

From the sound of it he's overcomplicating an issue unnecessarily, but if that distinction is important then I suppose "religious, unaligned" can be a better summary of his perspective. I do not wish to pick apart minutiae any further, so I will depart from this topic (if I can help it).
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 02:40:18 am »

Secondly, we've had a converastion on this before. A person is either athiest, agnostic or religous. Denying that you are all three (which you, Elvish Pillager, have done) is just as idiotic as what he's doing. Rejecting labels will not change the fact that everyone else uses them.
That would be all well and good if the labels applied to me in any way whatsoever. I could honestly say that I am any of the three, but equally, for each of the three, I could honestly deny being such, which I prefer doing - opposing overused labels seems much more right than going along with them. (yeah, I really don't look religious, but that's because I don't show the more religious side of myself online.)
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Resh Aleph
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 07:21:05 am »

You have an idea of how us humans fit into this universe which is esentially what religion is .
You seem to be rather uneducated about this matter. Evolution is definitely not religious: while religion is, of course, a cultural/psychological/artistic phenomenon (which better suits Ilwrath than humans), evolution is a logical, rational, scientifical concept with enough evidence to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

Although nothing could be claimed to be 100% true (philosophically), "believing" in evolution based on evidence makes much sense; believing in some absolute-power beings that are obsessed with humans, based on some superstitious old fairy tales, is not. Sorry.

Why should I trust old human writings, instead of my senses and simple logic (a.k.a. science)? How do I know that christianity is the true religion? How exactly is the Bible more real than the Koran?

Here's what I think. I think your parents/environment have brainwashed you when you were a child, that this stuff is a fundamental part of life. You were fascinated by the idea, because human psychology loves absolute righteous powers. That's what makes people admire strong fathers and leaders. And so you accepted it as absolute truth.

I also think you will regard everything I just said as nonsense without even considering it. Sad
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 07:43:21 am »

So.. you've never contemplated the meaning of life, why are we here and so on.. ?

Well, we're here because Earth can support life, so life--including us--evolved on it.

There was a Calvin and Hobbes strip on this.

Also, the OED disagrees with your definition of religion:
Quote
Religion
1. A state of life bound by religious vows; the condition of belonging to a religious order, esp. in the Roman Catholic Church. ME.
2. A particular monastic or religious order or rule.  Now rare. ME.
3. Belief in or sensing of some superhuman controlling power or powers, entitled to obedience, reverence, and worship, or in a system defining a code of living, esp. as a means to achieve spiritual or material improvement; acceptance of such belief (esp. as represented by an organized Church) as a standard of spiritual and practical life; the expression of this in worship etc.  Also (now rare), action or conduct indicating such belief; in pl., religious rites. ME.
4. A particular system of such belief. ME.
5. Devotion, fidelity; consciousness; pious attachment. L16-L17.
6. The sanction or obligation of an oath etc.  E17-E18.

Why are you trying to muddy our fine language by making up your own definitions for words?  Don't you realize that that diminishes the usefulness of language?
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