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Author Topic: stupid argument  (Read 16368 times)
Deus Siddis
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2007, 07:00:03 pm »

Shiver
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A person is either athiest, agnostic or religous. Denying that you are all three (which you, Elvish Pillager, have done) is just as idiotic as what he's doing.

Only if those three definitions are constant across all dictionaries and definitions and cover every possible situation.

I do not believe in gods because there is no solid definition as to what one actually is. There are so many religions with so many different forms of these things that it is hard to understand why they are considered one type of thing in the first place. Also, with the "supernatural" world having lost ground to the natural one via our more broad theories as to what is or may be possible, I don't know that we could not someday achieve a state like that of an old greek god through technology, or at least come close. So what am I defined as now? Think about it.


RTyp06
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So.. you've never contemplated the meaning of life, why are we here and so on.. ?

Umm, "meaning"? "Why"? Those are only two idiotic assumptions in one post, can you not do better than that? Nothing needs to have a "meaning" given to it by something to exist. We don't need a reason to be here to be here, we just need a how and we do, in fact there are many explanations for how we got here, even though only one is right.


Neonlare
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I'd say you're missing "Other," someone who acknowledges the belief of an afterlife, etc, but does not worship any religion in order to attain "points for the afterlife."

What, why the hell are we bringing an After-life in to this now? That is superfluous. You can be an atheist believing in an after-life, you can be a god-worshipper and believe that you are completely mortal.


Shiver
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Quote from: Neonlare on July 14, 2007, 08:06:20 pm
I'd say you're missing "Other," someone who acknowledges the belief of an afterlife, etc, but does not worship any religion in order to attain "points for the afterlife." That means not worshiping any Bibles, Scriptures, or any figure heads, but saying that yes, there must be something after death.

That's an agnostic. You're telling me you've never heard the term before?

That is not an agnostic. Given that small amount of vague information, you don't know what he is yet.


Elvish Pillager
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Agnostics believe that it can't be determined whether there's an afterlife. What Neonlare is describing is a person who believes in an afterlife, but doesn't subscribe to any organized religion. I'd consider that person religious

Then you would be wrong. He needs to have some belief in a god. And it would have to fall into some definition of a god to be one (not necessarily all those concepts of their gods that people have come up with over the ages). He can believe in an afterlife and fairies and cops that hate donuts but that doesn't necessarily make him less of an atheist, if indeed he is one.
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2007, 07:06:53 pm »

Well I havnt read the whole stuipd thread, but here is my two (flamable) cent worth thoughts.
First of all, calling someone religious or not is trying to make something non discrete, discrete.
Just like music, a person doesnt like the same music his whole life, it changes at any given point of time. By the way, I had a long period of time in which I didnt like to listen to any music at all, in fact I hated music. That was after I listened to allot of music, so yes, there are people who dosn't like music, at least for a part of their life.
So labeling people is some what a false approximation, since people are dynamic creatures and they change at any given point in time. People have many thoughts, some time contradicting, some time not clear. Especially when the thoughts are relating to things you can't proove mathematically.
I think there is one way to proove there is no god, if the human race goes extinct it pretty much prooves there is no god, because god promised to man they will not go extinct.
I also think that the human race will go extinct one day, because it is very propabble, another ice age may cause the human go extinct, maybe a nuclear war. But I am not sure, perhaps the humans will develope such an advanced technoligy that will allow them to survive for a very long period of time, though humans are very self destructive, so you cannot tell.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2007, 09:26:11 pm »

Well, as to music, I've always liked music, and I like playing music a lot more than I like listening to it.

I guess I'd like being a god a lot more than I'd like worshipping one. Grin
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Neonlare
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2007, 10:43:24 pm »

Well, as to music, I've always liked music, and I like playing music a lot more than I like listening to it.

I guess I'd like being a god a lot more than I'd like worshipping one. Grin

Lol, that does border Meglomania though? Tongue. Anyhow, Religion can play a helpful part, even if you don't agree with it. The idea that you are humbled to "some bloke on a cloud" (an outdated view in my opinion) and such can prevent people becoming vain and such, and then again it doesn't. A fair few tyrants have claimed they've had links with "God" and such.

Anyhow, I personally think that this topic is going to start a fair few flames, the clash between Religious and Atheistic views are always going to resort in a fire of some kind, unless both parties try to remain neutral and open at all times. Chances of this happening are as remote as being picked up by a space ship in space, also Trillian's phone number on Earth.
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Re: stupid topic
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2007, 03:55:26 am »

Elvish Pillager
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I guess I'd like being a god a lot more than I'd like worshipping one.

I have to say, you have fine taste on this issue. I do believe I could come over and become a Theist if I got the godly powers. I believe in my own existence and worship myself, so I am most of the way there already. Cool

Neonlare
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Chances of this happening are as remote as being picked up by a space ship in space

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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2007, 06:50:34 am »

I didn't respond to anything said in the thread in my first reply, so I'll do that now.


About labels: I really hate them. All of them. People shouldn't be classified. I even find nationalities a problematic concept.


So.. you've never contemplated the meaning of life, why are we here and so on.. ?
I don't even know what "the meaning of life" refers to. If it's the reason for life (why we're here), that would be evolution. If it's the purpose of life, that would be to make sure one's genes survive. Of course, humans are smart enough to make their own purposes and even defy the natural one (some actually battle it).

I don't see any remaining unanswered questions.


Quote from: RTyp06
The idea is that there are many parallels between music and religion.
...
You're saying religion is an invention? Then you aren't even religious! Now I'm just confused. Cry

Anyway, you made some good points there. People don't need religion, but it can sure satisfy some of their psychological needs. And yes, religion is much like music: they're both ancient forms of art which are very addicting/pleasing to the human psyche.
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2007, 03:38:06 pm »



I don't even know what "the meaning of life" refers to. If it's the reason for life (why we're here), that would be evolution. If it's the purpose of life, that would be to make sure one's genes survive. Of course, humans are smart enough to make their own purposes and even defy the natural one (some actually battle it).

I'm sorry, but that website reminded me of the scene in "Life of Brian" where the Kamikaze Foot-Soldiers commit seppeku in order to finish their mission Tongue.
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2007, 11:31:52 pm »

Ok I've read through this thread and you guys are right that we are not all "religious" per se. God, ritual etc. I'm speaking in a broader sense.

That said, I don't think it is coincidence that every culture that has ever existed has an historical religious element to them. Just as every culture that has ever existed has a historical musical element.

Perhaps music is simply an extension of language of which our brains are wired for. Likewise I believe we are wired for exploration, discovery and explanation of the universe around us. Thus, I believe we all harbor a world view due to this Insatiable curiosity which is also heavily influenced by personality, personal experience and/or culture.
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2007, 04:36:27 am »

I do not believe in gods because there is no solid definition as to what one actually is. There are so many religions with so many different forms of these things that it is hard to understand why they are considered one type of thing in the first place. Also, with the "supernatural" world having lost ground to the natural one via our more broad theories as to what is or may be possible, I don't know that we could not someday achieve a state like that of an old greek god through technology, or at least come close. So what am I defined as now? Think about it.

Deus_Siddis: A god is defined as a creator of the universe. That definition is consistent.  With that settled, lets move on to your next quote...

Umm, "meaning"? "Why"? Those are only two idiotic assumptions in one post, can you not do better than that? Nothing needs to have a "meaning" given to it by something to exist. We don't need a reason to be here to be here, we just need a how and we do, in fact there are many explanations for how we got here, even though only one is right.

Deus_Siddis: In trying to explain the "How", as in how we got here. Usually we're talking about how we got on earth or the universe came to be. You're right, there are many explanations, some say god put us here or a different god with a different set of rules, some say we fell to earth on a comet, some say we walked out of the ocean, some say it all started with a big bang and then we evolved. Only one answer could possibly be right. But if you believe any one answer you hear to be right, then you might as well go ahead and add God to your list of beliefs.

P.S. I feel stupid for even replying to these quotes...







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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2007, 05:47:27 am »

Deus_Siddis: A god is defined as a creator of the universe. That definition is consistent.  With that settled, lets move on to your next quote...

That doesn't work.  What about pantheons where there are lots of deities that didn't create the universe, but are nevertheless considered gods or goddesses and worshipped as such?  (Although there may be one or more actual creators.)

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Only one answer could possibly be right. But if you believe any one answer you hear to be right, then you might as well go ahead and add God to your list of beliefs.

Now you're just arguing in bad faith, I think.  Believing there is an explanation for something--even believing that a specific explanation is true--in no way means you have to consider every other possible explanation potentially valid.  I mean, if I say we were all sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure, and put that forth as a "theory", do you think anyone's going to even consider taking it seriously?
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Cedric6014
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2007, 07:04:37 am »

Off topic but:

Good heavens, consecutive posts by different women. Meep-Eep can you confirm if that has been a first for the UQM forum?
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2007, 08:37:59 am »

Perhaps music is simply an extension of language of which our brains are wired for. Likewise I believe we are wired for exploration, discovery and explanation of the universe around us. Thus, I believe we all harbor a world view due to this Insatiable curiosity which is also heavily influenced by personality, personal experience and/or culture.
Gods are indeed a convenient tool to satisfy curiosity about our own existence. It's the first theory anyone has ever made about this. But mankind has evolved greatly since those ancient times, and today we use logic and evidence to make probable theories, not baseless ones.

What bugs me is that so many people still believe in God wholeheartedly, even though it's the least based of all creation theories. What really bugs me is that they don't just believe there's some creator being (which isn't farfetched per se), but that they have a "religion", a set of superstitions based on some books people wrote. Religion is the greatest scam perpetrated on the public, really.
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2007, 09:01:01 am »

So the duties are split in pantheons...every god has a responsibility there is at least a creator or many.

Hindu - Brahma
Norse - Odin and his brothers used Ymir's body to create the universe.
Egyptian - Many different stories. But the gods came together to accomplish creation.
Shintoism - Many gods created
Greek - Nyx gave birth to the gods
Vodun - Damballah

Anyway - you get the point. There are also gods that don't create but make law. But I figured if someone didn't know what a god was maybe we should start with the basics.
 
Uhh Yeah...

I was arguing - I was arguing the same thing you just did to me. I was being Sarcastic...
Saying that if you "believe" a theory you might as well believe in god...Well if you can't take a joke...

Tongue

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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2007, 09:32:59 am »

Oh, sorry, didn't realize you were joking there.  And I really wanted to use that pun.  It's a sickness, I swear.  Caught from exposure to Xanth books at an early age.  Cry
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Re: stupid argument
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2007, 11:46:50 am »

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.   -Albert Einstein

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