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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Author Topic: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)  (Read 3398 times)
Prowler2885
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Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« on: January 16, 2008, 06:12:19 am »

This is a topic about what you want to see if Toys for Bob is willing to, instead of making an actual 3rd episode (sequel of SC2) of Starcon; re-imagining it with today's technology and powerful machines. You know, bring the PS3, XBOX360, Wii and today's power-hungry PC user (and mac user) generation some art. A retelling of the best game in all existence.

I was inspired by this statement from 0xDEC0DE:

I'm fairly certain that I'm completely alone in thinking such things, but what the franchise desperately needs isn't a sequel, but a re-imagining.

Fan-boy Ramble Mode Enabled: Toys For Bob employees are encouraged to skip this section if there is any fear from your lawyers about litigious fans suing you over story ideas.  Not that I would...

The story of Star Control was cleverly, and quite creatively, constrained by the limits of the available technology of its day.

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Read the Original Thread for the whole story.

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I've always been of the opinion that in a lot of ways, Star Control was ahead of its time.  But the times have caught up, and it's entirely possible to tell the story these days with all of the grandeur and scope that such a story requires.

But again, I'm fairly certain that's just me...


Here's an idea I came up with in response which started this:


I would like to see how the other stuff and battle/melee modes would be. Hell, even toss in classic melee with the refined designs (like SC3 but, good, and not 2.5D). 3D melee with full 3D control (Spathi Eluders sound like fun in full 3D, and would be disorienting to see moving. Hard lock on or track due to the many pods hiding "front"; B.U.T.T. missiles remain, and the person flying the Eluder can have rear-view to target auto-locking B.U.T.T.s), and classic 2D melee with classic "tiny" planets and no 3D control (to keep the classic feel of combat) as well as classic rules (1 primary and 1 secondary (special) firing mode, with "keep forward" no-brakes physics).

There's a concept.

Now, considering that as a topic starter, what else do you want to see in a remake? Is the name I gave, as an idea, for the re-release title a good idea?

Topic is now... :cuts ribbon with oversized safety scissors: OPEN!!!
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Valaggar Redux
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 03:04:30 pm »

I *smell* that guesst will be very interested by this thread. But not by my idea, as it strays too far from vanilla SC1.

So what would I want to see in SC: Redemption of the Alliance?
I've long been dreaming about a 3D RTT with Star Control's ships (and I'd add the SC2 ships as well, actually). You know, not the crap that's usually filling the market (unimaginative ship and weapon designs and let's not get started), but Star Control in full 3D glory, and I mean true 3D -- movement along the Z axis too.
Why RTT and not RTS? I'd absolutely love to see actual tactics for those ships, not just build orders and clickfests.

The idea of including a campaign map mode (like in the Total War games, I mean) also sounds good. And obviously, one of the maps has to be SC2's HyperSpace map, complete with Spheres of Influence. To provide the terrain variations needed for extra strategy, several approaches have already been suggested (by guesst and some others). Such as blocking certain areas to create corridors and chokepoints, designating some areas as "heavy" (slower movement, impeded vision) or "stormy" (ships in transit are damaged) etc..

And of course, when a ship moves to a portal to a planetary system, it goes to another map -- that of that system. With asteroid belts, Oort clouds (Sol and Vela, at least, both have such), systems within nebulae (such as Gamma Serpentis, per the SC1 manual's say) and all that jazz.

So there you go. There goes the (already infinitesimal) chance of this turning into an actual game...

Now of course, this idea might actually suck big when put in practice... maybe the depth of its tactics and strategy wouldn't be so big... but still, it's an idea.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 04:48:15 pm by Valaggar Redux » Logged
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 04:56:33 pm »

I like the idea of combining Star Control with some aspects of Space Empires 4. Research and design could play an important role [as it did, more or less, in the development of the Thraddash Torch during the Star Control time line] and a variety of colony defense methods would be cool too. Space Empires featured a variety of the things mentioned by Valaggar, and I think 3d combat would really enhance the game. Just imagine how maneuverable a Supox ship or an Ur-quan fighter could be then.

Other possibly cool features: ground combat [for invasions], support ships [supply ships, troop transports, and such]   
 



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Pyro411
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 11:31:11 pm »

Silly question.  Why don't TFB & Stardock team up on this?  Galactic Civ and Galactic Civ II seem to be VERY HEAVILY Influenced by Star Control

What I'd like to see if there was a re-imagining of the entire Star Control line is as follows...

1)  Multi part Game AKA Starcon1 - Starcon2 - the evil child Starcon3 or a true Starcon3 from TFB either being in diff disks on the same disk or whatever & have the timegaps filled in by short clips/movies to help the story flow from "chapter" to "chapter" and fill in the blanks.
2)  Colonies beyond just the single home world of each race.
3)  The Galactic outlook on you/earthlings by your actions.  AKA Strip Mining in an allies "Sphere of Influence" would be bad for you Smiley
4)  More Back story on each race, IE were the Precursors properly shown in SC3, Who are the Orz?  etc etc etc.
5)  An Easter Egg of some sort, say the cpt hits an alien artifact & Poof!  they see a video overview of the Docternal wars, or a video of the precursors struggles
6)  Earthling's sphere of influence!  -- Say just enough to reflect how powerful/rich you've become allowing you to have border skirmishes / protect allies / etc
7)  After a certain point give the ability to control multiple fleets or a single huge fleet.
Cool  AI Controlled ships within your own sphere of influence to protect your lands, possibly also real time distress calls for big battles, or from Allied Races / races not yet in the alliance that'd tie into #3
9)  The ability to create more precursor ships by supplying the proper mats to the proper places late in the game.

Now here's a storyline question that can get filled in Smiley  What story were you going to tell your grandchildren at a later time in SC2

TFB - Use any/all of this as you see fit, if you request a digital signature saying I won't go after you for any compensation for ideas I'll sign it in a heart beat.
UQM Team - Keep up the good work Smiley
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2008, 07:27:06 pm »

In a legit SC sequel I think there could be scope for some economic strategy.

Game settings randomised each time a new game is started. Star positions, spheres of influence, mineral distributions - but I don't mean direct randomisation - randomise such there is large scale structure in the starmap, and so on.

What I'd really like to see is greater flexibility in the plot, with probabilistic outcomes of your actions. For example, the Orz will be ticked off if you ask them x times about the Androsynth. How about there being being merely a probability of this happening, a probability which varies with the number of times you ask them. What's the point of this? There would only be any point if you are rewarded for taking this risk. Maybe they say something you can use or which allows something to happen in the game.

Also, this probability distribution might change if the Orz see Arilou ships in your fleet. Put enough of these together and the game gets much more complicated, with political games and such. There would be many ways to play. In the above example, ticking the Orz means having to fight for the Taalo shield - well, then you are a a player who has chosen to be a bully without tact, achieving ends militarily.

It should always be possible to handle these matters with tact or with brute force, but the game shouldn't be biased either way - unless this too is a variable to be randomised. Perhaps one has started with a starmap low on resources, and you won't be able to win by raising massive fleets to take on the sa-matra without the talking pet, et cetera. Then part of the skill in playing would be to recognise this early, adopting a political, economic and military strategy to suit.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 07:31:07 pm by Zeracles » Logged

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Prowler2885
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2008, 08:48:27 am »

It's nice to see some developments in this thread.

I'm glad this idea came up. Speaking of which, not bad ideas from everyone so far.

And yes, Supox would be a bitch to fight in a 3D environment. What about the zap-sats of the Chmmr, or the explosion of the Shofixti glory device, or the F.R.I.E.D. emitter from the Khor-Ah? Adding another dimension can really alter the battlefiled. Maybe to the extent that the Pkunk would need additional firepower (another set of guns maybe) or the Arilou would need an additional turret on the topside or something, you know, to help out the ships with a bit more difficulty on the battlefield. The VUX Intruder would need a bit of improvement as well (faster boogers maybe, which can also target specific spots (turning, speed, acceleration, etc.)).

And to make more sense of things, maybe the lifebar/crew would need an adjustment in it's name or something. Crew that remains does on-board repairs on the structure affecting shield recovery rate, charging and such. As for damage, the more impact from a weapon, the quicker crew/shield/structure damage is done. I mean, if kids can keep up with a HUD regarding shields, lives, and duel-wielding and whatnot (See Halo games, and Ghost Recon), as well as affected damages altering speed accuracy and such; this little tweak can at least prevent some confusion with the crowds. As well, it can also make more sense about the Precursor ship (crew pods and components), as well as the Ur-Quan ships and how the crew mostly consists of drones or machines (if I remember correctly) and few Ur-Quan are actually in the ship; which also would alleviate the whole 42 Ur-Quan crew as well as the Chmmrs and all.

Make sense?

There's so many awesome things to consider with Starcon in a full 3D environment. Plus, considering so many people having an all out deathmatch melee on let's say XBOX Live on a daily basis, with a *new* game (to the current generation of gamers); Super Melee would still live on in the new generation blood. And furthermore, if people aren't much into dueling or dogfighting, then an all out war with 16-32 ships (Separate races even, or race vs. race), and up to between 2-4-16-32 players simultaneously playing; it would be madness. I mean, imagine it; you know how people tend to settle feuds in certain manners, or hold clans and stuff?

Imagine this, a Shofixti clan of (let's say 16 players) versus a small starter clan of Ur-Quan masters (8 players) duking it out. you can imagine (also if there's an option of lives to keep playing, ala 3 lives per player), you'll be seeing a replication of the battle of Delta Gorno happen.

While typing that, I have another idea. For online gamers, the achievement points will actually account for something, and would also be easy to rack up one way or another. Playing through the story mode, or doing certain extra tasks (like acting like Dogar and Kazon) can net you plenty of achievement points, allowing you to purchase some ships online for battle; keeping in tradition of the point-buy system of ships for melee. Especially considering today's gamers are more the gung-ho type, not planning teams and also buying when they have points, and are over-achievers. Furthermore, the ships that can be purchased are based on what is unlocked so far (aside from a select few that can be purchased first); other ships to be unlocked for online play must be unlocked via story mode; to make it more friendly for newbies compared to us veterans of the storyline/game online (For example: "Cowardly Alliance achievement unlocked", after befriending Fwiffo, or saying the secret cypher to the council, or killing off the "Evil ones", Spathi Eluders can now be used in online play. Or, "Temporal oddity unlocked", Visit Quasispace or ally with Arilou, Arilou can now be used in Online mode. "Kahn-fusion, har har har", Umgah unlocked; etc.)

Pricing can also be based along the lines of what we currently use, but converted in online point-buy systems too (Achievement points). It's to be fair enough mixed with the unlockings so that even someone that's going on just for melee, and not storyline (as blasphemous as it sounds) can still also rack up a pretty decent fleet, and not abuse the heavier or more useful ships, like the Ur-Quan Dreadnought with the fighters, Khor-Ah with the F.R.I.E.D., or the Chmmr with the zapsats, and probably even the Yehat with the shields. Pretty much, it's to prevent online abuse making the game lose interest to newbies and skilled veterans alike. Plus, the more powerful ships (and skills applied) show the true meaning of the term achievement, and also works as a way to strut online with mad leet skillz. Of course, if such ideas and such get released, and any true veteran bothers getting a 360, PS3, or Wii (sounds more interesting with that), then we'd mop the floor with non-starcon-ers.

I think our ideas are pretty good. Keep them coming, and hope TFB is listening (and hopefully would have something to convince the big wigs to get cracking on the new release/re-release.

Thinking on that, Starcon: Redemption would sound like fun on the Wii with the unique ways to pilot each ship with the nunchuck. Plus, the platform battlefield still looks dominant on the Wii side anyhow. Heh, new definition of the name Spathi Eluder with the Wii's nunchuck to pilot with,  ooh! Shocked or even the Slylandro probe would be fun with the Wii. And further marketing strategy, a collector's "Fwiffo" nunchuck sticker set. Gimme until maybe Monday to mock-up something along that idea. (I don't own a Wii, but can PS the controller piece to look like Fwiffo to show what I'm talking about. *hee hee*, sounds like fun to make, the idea in my head tooks awesome.)

Oh, and sorry if the above paragraphs are a bit large. I'm like butter, I'm on a roll.

Here's the controller I'm talking about:


I'll find a more high-res one to work with, but doesn't the controller look like a Spathi?
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 07:03:05 pm »

Just one thing to keep in mind guys:  KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!!)

Part of the reason that I love Star Control I so much (it is probably the funnest game I own.  Sure, Star Control II is epic, but Star Control I is fun) is because it is surprisingly simple.  Each side has a fleet (usually) and a starbase (usually).  Then you compete for control of the map building only three things (rule of 3!!):  mine, colony or fortification.  Well, and ships, but you know what I mean.  Everything in this game is simple, from each ship having two different abilities to damage being measured in crew without all the extra calculations of effectiveness based on the ship's damage level.  Is it realistic?  Of course not.  Is it easy to get a handle on and ridiculously fun to play?  Bet your life!!

I'm not saying that we can't add stuff (or take away things.  That spinning map is more annoying than the Dreadnought's fighters).  I would just like to caution that we avoid turning the game into some clunky mess.

Along those lines, I like the idea of AI controlled ships protecting your territory.  That gives it a bit extra realism, with minimal hassle for the player. 
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 08:28:12 pm »

I agree, I don't think realism adds much.
Quote
Along those lines, I like the idea of AI controlled ships protecting your territory.  That gives it a bit extra realism, with minimal hassle for the player.
I think one of the great potentials of melee is in the possibility of writing the scripts for the strategy of these AIs. This reduces the player's workload while the player concentrates on the real job of thinking about strategy. So, in third person, rather than having the usual units lining up and shooting at each other, SC ships would much more dynamic - but one player can't control all of them, so they would have to be AI-controlled. The player isn't madly clicking on units telling them where to go and what to shoot, the player is adapting strategy (via code, and realistically, via a set of numbers which goes into the code) to suit the changing situation.
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Re: Star Control: Redemption of the Alliance (Next-gen remake idea thread)
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 05:43:25 pm »

A few more ideas from my ever scattered brain Smiley

AI Controlled patrols... depending on your relationship with allied races have other ships mixed in the groups to increase the kill:loss ratio.  -- IE toss some Orz & Pkunk in there Cheesy
Hired Miners for within your sphere of influence and have it so they can only mine what you can mine safely & make sure there's a % hit on profit since you hired someone else to do the mining for you.
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