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Author Topic: Fighting Utwig Juggers  (Read 8731 times)
jaychant
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2008, 09:12:07 pm »

Yes, as Shiver is well aware, he should be talking about what this thread is about, and this thread is about fighting an AI controlled Jugger, NOT a human controlled Jugger. Against an AI controlled Jugger, it is much more effective to use a Drone than an Intruder (because you don't need to start by crippling it with limpets).
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Shiver
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2008, 01:03:59 am »

Yes, as Shiver is well aware, he should be talking about what this thread is about, and this thread is about fighting an AI controlled Jugger, NOT a human controlled Jugger. Against an AI controlled Jugger, it is much more effective to use a Drone than an Intruder (because you don't need to start by crippling it with limpets).

Some people enjoy kicking the ball into their own goal. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
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Death 999
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2008, 06:53:55 pm »

Some people aren't as good as you, Shiver.
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2008, 09:49:51 pm »

I acknowledged this previously. That text you've quoted is my response to "has no one tried Umgah?". We've tried it. Jaychant isn't wrong, but there's a point where techniques that work against the AI lose all meaning.
The phrasing confuses me a little. At what point is that?

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jaychant
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 03:02:31 am »

When you fight a human, especially an expert human like Shiver.
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2008, 04:43:33 pm »

When you fight a human, especially an expert human like Shiver.
Ah, I finally remember.

Yeah. Good times.

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jaychant
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2008, 09:05:23 pm »

Yes, it only took you... let's see, add 9 and 6, carry the two... Six days to remember!
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Cedric6014
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2008, 05:58:41 am »

I need to say something here.

I agree with just about everything Elvish Pillager and Shiver say on melee. These guys are basically the community’s academics on the subject.  They’ve played just about every conceivable combination of every ship many times over….and that’s just against each other. I agree because I’m just about as good/experienced as they are (or was) and have done the whole Player vs Player thing. The folks who are bothered arguing with them are folks who have considerably less experience in PvP. If you’re going to get into an argument with these guys over what ships are how effective against what other ships you are wasting your time. You are going to be wrong and indeed proven so in the melee arena.

I’m personally not bothered with any discussion on melee vs AI, it’s not relevant to me.

HOWEVER…..

I don’t see why discussion on the subject of melee should be restricted to the 3 or 4 people who have devoted their lives to being melee grand masters

The vast majority of UQM members have not honed their skills and strategies over a zillion PvP match-ups. In fact for most, their PVP experience is probably limited to a handful of PvP games vs their 7 year old cousin. The bulk of their experience will be countless hours against the mindless AI.

It’s not fair that EP and Shiver shoot down any opinion some noob posts about his melee experiences. The fact is, if you’re not that experienced at PvP, your opinion is almost certainly going to be wrong in the eyes of the veterans.

I say to Shiver and EP: bite your tongue. As hard as this may be when some fool extols the virtues of the Umgah, or insists that a Spathi is a super counter to a Kohr-ah.

The UQM forum is for people who love star control (or at least it has become this). They are entitled to have a robust discussion at their own level without being made fools of. If these guys know they’re going to be shot down when ever they utter something remotely related to Melee, they’re not going to bother.  Foster their enthusiasm in net melee, don’t destroy it.





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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2008, 06:39:39 am »

Cedric: Amen brother!
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Shiver
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2008, 10:33:05 am »

etc.

Well put. I'll try to focus more on the big picture from now on. I could at least soften the rhetoric up a bit. Or a lot. Maybe let a dumb post or two slide entirely. As for Elvish Pillager, I don't see the problem with his posting habits. He's usually quite restrained on the forums. He's been a bit obstinate in the Banana Boat thread, but that's about it.


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[...] or insists that a Spathi is a super counter to a Kohr-ah.

Funny that you mention that. Spathi as a Kohr-Ah killer was the very first thing I fixated upon when I got into super melee, although you won't find evidence of it on the forums. It took a few bludgeoning sessions before I learned the error of my ways. I'm certainly not above doing a little bit of dumb newbie crap.
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jaychant
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2008, 12:24:15 pm »

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I don’t see why discussion on the subject of melee should be restricted to the 3 or 4 people who have devoted their lives to being melee grand masters

The vast majority of UQM members have not honed their skills and strategies over a zillion PvP match-ups. In fact for most, their PVP experience is probably limited to a handful of PvP games vs their 7 year old cousin. The bulk of their experience will be countless hours against the mindless AI.

It’s not fair that EP and Shiver shoot down any opinion some noob posts about his melee experiences. The fact is, if you’re not that experienced at PvP, your opinion is almost certainly going to be wrong in the eyes of the veterans.

I say to Shiver and EP: bite your tongue. As hard as this may be when some fool extols the virtues of the Umgah, or insists that a Spathi is a super counter to a Kohr-ah.

The UQM forum is for people who love star control (or at least it has become this). They are entitled to have a robust discussion at their own level without being made fools of. If these guys know they’re going to be shot down when ever they utter something remotely related to Melee, they’re not going to bother.  Foster their enthusiasm in net melee, don’t destroy it.

Thank you!
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2008, 02:10:28 pm »

How about a "netmelee message template" starting with an introduction like this?

That may be so in a match against the AI, or between beginner or even intermediate players; however, things are different from my experience as a veteran netmelee player.
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2008, 05:09:51 pm »

Cedric, once again you are the voice or reason and I agree wholeheartedly. Especially in terms of fostering enthusiasm for net melee.  Cheesy

As far as new players expressing opinions, I'm all for it. I think a lot of the fun of melee is expressing your ideas and strategies and testing them in battle. I remember the excitement of discovering the Mmrnmhrm could defeat the dreaded Ur-Quan in SC1.  Grin These little things are a ton of fun to think about when you're just getting started.

(As a side note, I at one point endorsed the Ur-Quan as the best ship in the game. Shows you what I knew!)
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Death 999
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2008, 05:27:56 pm »

Maybe let a dumb post or two slide entirely.

A lot of these posts aren't dumb in the context in. If you're going up against someone inexperienced, or the AI, those 'dumb' tactics can work.
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Re: Fighting Utwig Juggers
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2008, 06:01:20 pm »

Yes, it only took you... let's see, add 9 and 6, carry the two... Six days to remember!

I may have holes in my memory, my mathematics, my underwear, and my memory, but I've never seen that FunRom before!

A lot of these posts aren't dumb in the context in. If you're going up against someone inexperienced, or the AI, those 'dumb' tactics can work.

True. Any ship has a chance against another. It just depends on skill, perseverence, and a little luck.

-=PakoPako=-
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