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Author Topic: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah?  (Read 35782 times)
Lukipela
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #105 on: February 10, 2003, 10:28:20 pm »

i agree. The Chenjesu/Mrnhrm weren't the ppl to do a last stand Shofixti style, nor would they have begun the process if they had even an inkling about the Kohr-Ah. They would have hidden themselves somewhere, or made for a new sector...
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Death 999
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #106 on: February 10, 2003, 11:28:14 pm »

Maybe they would have tried to convince the Kzer-Za that it was fair and proper that their battle thralls should fight on their side. Goodness knows that with the Spathi on their side the Kzer-Za could have done a hell of a lot better.

Failing that, they would have developed a ship that would evade detection from the Kzer-Za and secretly aid them in wiping out the Kohr-Ah.

Maybe fire resistant impact resistant micro-crystalline shards in a magnetic bottle - it would look like a natural effect, but it would 'naturally' go after the heavy-metal wielding Kohr-Ah and not the Kzer-Za.
It wouldn't kill any crew, say, but it would weaken their engines, batteries, and so forth. Like being limpeted and having a DOGI stuck in your hull. MUHAHA
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2003, 11:41:17 pm »

The Doctrinal War was not about which of the Ur-Quan races is extinct first. Even as the game ends with the unfortunate triumph of the Kohr-Ah, the Kzer-Za aren't even near annihilation..
« Last Edit: February 10, 2003, 11:45:26 pm by Censored » Logged

"You boldly enter our space! Approach this Dreadnought as though it were a recreation base and then play the dumb hominid?
Who do you take us for, Captain... Spathi!?"
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2003, 11:44:57 pm »

When I said wiping out I didn't mean literally genociding - I meant militarily dominating.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #109 on: February 10, 2003, 11:49:29 pm »

Ok Tongue

hmpf! when do I get a "Too Much Spare Time" ?
hehe

even though that's not true, if I had too much spare time I'd learn to program games, buy MicrosFot and rule the world!
MUAHAHHAHAHAH!

Grin
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"You boldly enter our space! Approach this Dreadnought as though it were a recreation base and then play the dumb hominid?
Who do you take us for, Captain... Spathi!?"
Lukipela
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #110 on: February 11, 2003, 12:31:16 am »

Unless I'm completely wrong, you get Too Much spare time at a 100 posts. easy to test since this is my 100th! So I wait hope and pray.

Oh, and to add to the disuccion, that always struck me as weird:The Kzer-Za fight the Kohr-Ah to decide whose doctrine is the best. so the Kohr-Ah get to bring all the ships they've built from materials plundered from extinct races. That's their philosophy, only Ur-quan. Whereas the Kzer-Za propagate FOR battle thralls and slave shields. why shouldn't they use them? The Thralls are the direct result of their philosophy, the strenght of it. They should be used in the battle.

Reading this post I see it looks a bit like the starting post of the topic Smiley Duh! But the point remains, why did they agree to fight mano e mano?

----------------------

EDIT: It was 101 posts Smiley
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 12:35:11 am by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #111 on: February 11, 2003, 01:22:30 am »

Actually the Kzer-Za say their intention are to save other races from self-extinction or over-powering the Kzer-Za. By becoming battle-thralls and thus helping the Kzer-Za subjugate other races they actually gain protection for themselves, plus the Kzer-Za's rule should prevent the thralls from "self-extinction", so to speak.


"In our twenty thousand years along the Path of Now and Forever
we have dominated thousands of species, yes
but we have saved hundreds from extinction.
You imagine the threat of unknown invaders, or alien pestilence borne on the solar wind.
We have seen these. But you do not acknowledge your own worst enemy, yourselves.
We have found dead worlds without number, planets ravaged by atomic fire or gaian collapse.
These planets were not rendered sterile by outside forces.
They bear sad testament to the effects of unrestrained instinct and emotion
or simple ignorance.
We will prevent such mistakes. "


I also found this bit which I thought would be a cool thing to add Wink by a Kzer-Za captain:
"You boldly enter our space! Approach this Dreadnought as though it were a recreation base
and then play the dumb hominid?
Who do you take us for, Captain... Spathi!?"

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"You boldly enter our space! Approach this Dreadnought as though it were a recreation base and then play the dumb hominid?
Who do you take us for, Captain... Spathi!?"
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #112 on: February 11, 2003, 01:38:38 am »

Yes, but whatever reason for their philosophy, selfprotection, protecting others, anything, it still stands that they are FOR thralls. The Thralls are actually an importnat part of theirphilosophy, in that they swell their ranks and allow them conquer more quickly. So still, I think it'd be logical to have them with you in the conflict. After all, they are what you are fighting for.

LOL. Never so that quote before.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #113 on: February 11, 2003, 05:45:57 am »

The answer is very simple: the Ur-Quan consider all other life forms to be so grossly inferior to themselves that they do not have the honor to participate in the Doctrinal War, which (by tradition) should only take place between Ur-Quan anyway.

The Doctrinal War isn't about doing everything you can to win. I think the game makes it obvious that it's really a war of opposing philosophies and, for all of their belligerence, the Ur-Quan are ultimately idealistic beings. What I mean is that their ideals are more important to them than anything else, even more than winning. If these ideals would prevent the Kzer-Za from using their battle thralls than so be it. The fact that they do things the right way is a lot more important to them than just winning. If either subspecies "cheats" then it isn't a true victory because they didn't prove their doctrine to be superior.

This is further shown if the Kohr-Ah win. The Kzer-Za are vehemently opposed to the Kohr-Ah's doctrine but they immediately stop fighting once the war is over. Why? Because they lost, fair and square, and the Kohr-Ah have proven their doctrine. Since they lost they have to follow the rules and let the Kohr-Ah do as they will, and damn the consequences, because it's what they believe in. See my point?
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #114 on: February 12, 2003, 12:20:45 am »

I do see your point, but I still don't see the philosophic idea behind it. I mean, The Path of Now and Forever still weighs heavily on the "let the aliens live" policy, and it's the strength of it! It's the reason they differ from the Kohr-Ah. Shouldn't this be reflected in their way of fighting? The Kohr-Ah are fighting alone, because they are always alone, but the Kzer-Za should have their servants fight, because that's what THEY do.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #115 on: February 12, 2003, 02:22:47 am »

But that's not what they did in the first doctrinal war (no heirarchy of slaves).  Ur-Quan believe in tradition so much that they will not use their slaves in the battle.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #116 on: February 12, 2003, 03:11:08 am »

I think the point here is simple:

NO!  The Kzer-Za strategy in the doctrinal war doesn't make any sense from a tactical standpoint.

So what?

That isn't the point!
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #117 on: February 12, 2003, 04:41:29 am »

Talk about post-traumatic stress. Two subspecies who literally control-freak on the whole galaxy so that they'll never have to be afraid again. Of course, they'd turn on each other once they were the only two left. Why? Because fear is not rational. There's no "Ah, all better," ever. Once there's no alien stand-in for the "other", they'll find it in each other. Not even slave shielded races will be safe, because after all non-shielded races are gone, the answerless fear will still remain. And once there's no "other" kind of Ur-Quan, they'll find it within their brothers, until there's only one Ur-Quan left, who will die without offspring, probably of simple starvation. Either Ur-Quan path, unless stopped, will end with the destruction of all life in the galaxy.

The Kzer-Za are willing to let their conscience get the better of them and let some species live, in a contained way, but only because they have a proactive (if neurotic) way of dealing with their fear. They can never ever truly address and resolve their fear, because it's not about the rest of the galaxy, it's about something that doesn't exist: the event that caused them suffering, removed from the here and now by millenia. Nothing will "make it go away", because it's already gone.

Of course, maybe they'll get lucky and be stuck on chasing those rascally IDF critters. So long as there's a barbarian at the gates, something more "other" than their brothers, they won't turn.

Or maybe they'll set their sights on other galaxies, leaving this dead galaxy behind, only to get their butts kicked by the Sentient Milleu II and their fleet of Super Sa-Matras.

So while you may not be the universe's only hope, you most likely are this galaxy's last chance.

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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #118 on: February 12, 2003, 05:55:15 pm »

Well here's an interesting question: do the Ur-Quan even know about IDF beings? I assume they would have to know at least something about them, either through intelligence and study regarding the Arilou or simply through their own independent studies. Of course, fighting a never ending war might gobble up all the resources it would take to do such experimenting.

But assuming they did know about IDF beings, how do you think they'd handle them? The Orz, for example... where is their homeworld? What happened to the Androsynth, who are supposed to be Ur-Quan battle thralls? If one of their thralls is attacked, would it be considered an attack against the entire hierarchy? If so they'd likely declare war against the Orz. It wouldn't do too much good, I think, because they'd be destroying the Orz *fingers* but not the Orz entity. I wonder if they'd ever figure the Orz out.

Too many questions, too few answers. =)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2003, 07:17:51 pm by Matticus » Logged

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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #119 on: February 12, 2003, 10:25:50 pm »

An answer which is probably related to the Sa-Matra and the Precursors' disappearance.. About the Orz-Andosynth event, I think I've said that before here - as soon as the Kzer-Za met with their Kohr-Ah cousins they forgot all about thralls and slave-races and focused entirely on the Doctrinal War. That's why the Hierarchy is in choas, in terms of control.
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"You boldly enter our space! Approach this Dreadnought as though it were a recreation base and then play the dumb hominid?
Who do you take us for, Captain... Spathi!?"
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