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Author Topic: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah?  (Read 35945 times)
Censored
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #90 on: February 06, 2003, 06:47:12 pm »

Yes, when I think of it - the Chmmr isn't the ship itself, so following the same concept the Chmmr won't become a battle platform..
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #91 on: February 07, 2003, 01:45:19 pm »

Possibly the Avats were meant as support troops? Not all chenjesu/Mrnhrm were needed to create  the platform perhaps...  or the Avatars were meant to be remote cotrolled, like the drones io a beeswarm. The Ur-Quan still have a fleet of  Dreadnoughts, they don't rely entirely on the Sa-Matra either.

As for emerging from the planet. No matetr if they just converted the race, or the entire planet, they'd still be inside the slaveshield wouldn't they. so they'd definetly have to emerge.

And likewise, if all they wanted was a new ship, creatinga completley new race is a bit over the edge isn't it? they could just have used their time to research a ship piloted by either of the races, or a team, that was strong enough to defeat the enemy. Of course, every race in Starcon has a ship, and none has two, so it is weirdly logical that for a new ship you'd need a new race, but still...

And the Chmmr isn't in the ship itself no, but the process was interrupted... Maybe they hadn't gotten as far as merging with eachother.

A superpowered Chmmr ship just seems... Well, weird to me. In that case, the cost of even one of these ships would be astronomical, and a fleet of two ships isn't much good is it?

All that said, any theory about what the Chmmr could have been is still just a theory... But it sure is fun speculating : )
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2003, 10:24:31 pm »

The Precursors had two ships.  ^_^

In any case, I think the Chmmr DID need to form a new race.  I don't think that the problem is that the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm needed to combine their talents and create a new ship, I think they knew they wouldn't be able to design a new ship unless they had a whole new way of THINKING about the ship design.  The Chenjesu were worried because their culture had stagnated, and they needed some "new blood" to stir things up, and the Mmrnmhrm had no form of reproduction--the forming of a new race had to happen.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #93 on: February 08, 2003, 01:53:04 pm »

That is a good point, to gain a new perspective, become someone else! But was the Chenjesu culture really stagnant?

But think what a perspective they would have gained ass "The biggest station in the world!" Wink
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #94 on: February 08, 2003, 08:34:30 pm »

The Chmmr you talk to SAYS they had grown stagnant.. so.. yes.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2003, 09:05:57 pm »

Umm, i looked through the quotes on PONAF and couldn't find what your refferring to, but their quote page for the chmmr seems to stop in mid sentence

http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc2/quotes/chmmr.txt

but ill take your word for it anyway : ) I wonder how such an ancient culture could stagnate so easily...
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2003, 10:14:25 pm »

Every conversation is available in UQM/content/comm/<race>/<race>.txt
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2003, 05:24:01 am »

Avatars as Dreadnought killers (as opposed to Sa-Matra killers) makes sense if you remember that they planned the merging process to take thousands of years. Um, it took thousands of years for Round One of the Doctrinal War to play out, maybe they were banking on the KZ's winning and there being a Round Two.

Otherwise, it makes no sense for you to start a pan-millenial project when you've got just a few decades till anihilation.

I mean, it's not much of a Now and Forever, Eternal thing if you're only going to do it once-and-out, now is it?

This has never made sense. If you and I agree to walk around the galaxy (or planet or merrygoround or imaginary circle) and kill each other next time we meet, we're NOT going to meet where we started, we're going to meet halfway around, on the far side. But KZs and KAs started AND ended at the Sa-Matra. Huh? Did they pass each other peacefully 10,000 years ago on the other side of the galaxy? And if so, who did the KZ's slave-shield on the home stretch? All the races would be wiped out by the KAs on their initial pass. Unless you think a species can evolve from nonsentient critters into a starfaring military power in less than 10,000 years. ( I allow for critters because the KAs must eat something, I don't imagine them being photosynthetic like the Chenjesu. Yep, vicious, sadistic, insane vegan killing machines.)

And if the KAs are wandering around a quadrant that has nothing but impeneterable slave shielded races, I'd think they'd go batshit because they wouldn't be the only living thing left. THEY AUTOMATICALLY LOSE THE WAR. And if they CAN penetrate the slave shield, why aren't you trying to rip off the technology so you can rebuild the Alliance? Isn't that your goal for the first 3/4 of the game?
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2003, 09:24:24 am »

Deathy:

They DID meet halfway around.

The Sa-Matra CAN move.

The Kzer-Za currently have the Sa-Matra turned off in order to fight the Doctrinal War.

They took the SM from the Sentient Mileu's place on the other side of the galaxy, and after the first Doctrinal War they went their separate ways.  Luckily for us, the metting point was very near Earth.

As far as the slave shields:

You KNOW that they can penatrate the shields, b/c the Kzer-Za chagne out who's on the starbases every 5 years.  (At least they're supposed to.)  So the Kohr-Ah would jsut bring down the shield and kill everything.

And just how to you propose to discover the secret of the sheild?  I guarantee you that there are armies of scientists on Earth who have been studying it for the last 18 years!  If they haven't been able to break it how do you propose to?
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2003, 07:36:30 pm »

There is a bit of a strange problem hiding in there. I mean, it takes the Spathi only a couple of months to duplicate the Slaveshield around Earth so perfectly that they can duplicate it on Spathiwa. From simply watching a Slave Shield in operation, they are able to reverse engineer it and make their own. We however, have had people on both sides on the shield for a much longer time observing and studying, and we still know squat about it. We need the Chmmr to bring it down. Now Chwenjesu and later on Chmmr are real brainy guys, unofficial leaders of the Alliance and whatnot, so I can take them being smarter than us. But are the Spathi really that bright? Well, they must be I suppose, after they did evolve rather quickly as well....
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2003, 10:05:12 pm »

You're all wrong Wink

The people on Earth aren't even trying to take down the shield because they know they'll be all anni.. agning.. err, annihilated Tongue if they do. They also don't have any contact with the outside so they have no idea of the New Alliance of Free Stars (or, I should correct myself - The Empire of CENSORED! MAUHAHAHHA... ahem.)
Anyways - you wouldn't take down the shield because you'd be risking your whole race, and besides - what can Cruisers possibly do? scratch the Ur-Quan's butt?  Grin
Don't forget the first time you meet an Ur-Quan Kzer-Za, he (she? hmm, how DO Ur-Quan females look like? in bikini? hehehe) says something like, "how did you escape the slave shield, human? or are you a rogue?"

They don't think that Earth has been liberated, and don't forget they don't have time to mess with this - they're in the middle of the Doctrinal War. About the Kohr-Ah - they don't really care about slave shields. They'd just bombard the planet until everyone dies - they don't support the fallow slave races idea. Or any "races" idea.

Last, the Spathi had over 20 years to figure out how the slave shield works, considering their story (they wished they were encased in a protective shield but the Umgah tricked them with the stick ceremony and all.. you know the story). And besides, I'm sure being combat thralls gave them a bit of advantage regarding the shield's construction and so.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2003, 10:08:22 pm by Censored » Logged

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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #101 on: February 10, 2003, 06:19:08 am »

The Chenjesu/Mmrnmhrm already knew how to penetrate a slave shield -- they did so when they moved everyone from the starbase down to the Chenjesu homeworld. The Chmmr take down the slave shield to Earth (and I'm assuming to Gaia as well) eventually so they know how to get rid of them.

But destroying a slave shield is quite different from generating one.

Also bear in mind that the worlds that have been slave-shielded supposedly have their technology taken away. As the Spathi put it:

...or become a 'fallow' species and return to pre-atomic savagery on the surface of their homeworld encased for all time beneath an impenetrable force shield.
Speaking of the Spathi, they tried to create a shield rather than bring one down. Theirs is a unique motivation, as I'm sure they're the only race in the galaxy who are trying to be slave shielded. Such a thing would be paradise to them! And as Censored pointed out, they had around 20 years to theorize on different ways to do this. Observing and studying an actual slave shield just gave them that last bit of information they needed to make their own.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #102 on: February 10, 2003, 02:23:39 pm »

Quote
Avatars as Dreadnought killers (as opposed to Sa-Matra killers) makes sense if you remember that they planned the merging process to take thousands of years. Um, it took thousands of years for Round One of the Doctrinal War to play out, maybe they were banking on the KZ's winning and there being a Round Two.
How should the Chenjesu or the Mmrhmhrm know about the Kohr-Ah? The Kzer-Za arrived at this region of space, and that's all they know! The Kzer-Za are trying to submit every race to their domination. The Kohr-Ah have not yet arrived when the Chenjesu where slave-shielded. Therefor the doctrinal war has not begun when the Chenjesu where enslaved. And that would explain the flaw they have when fighting the Kohr-Ah, because the Zap-Sats are easy prey to the Fiery Ring of Inevitable and Eternal Destruction, leaving the Avatar a sitting duck.
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #103 on: February 10, 2003, 04:12:23 pm »

It would also explain why the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm elect to take part in a process with the projected end date of a couple of decades. If they knew of the Kohr-Ah and their intentions, they may have decided to go with another plan. That would be interesting... what sort of plan do you suppose they'd come up with if they did know the Kohr-Ah were soon going to nuke everyone?
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Re: Why aren't battle thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2003, 04:16:34 pm »

Probably, they"d have tried too flee (like the Mael-Num/Melnorme). And hoped that they eliminate each other far enough, so that the combined strength of those willing to help could defeat both fleets before they have decided who wins the doctrinal war and is allowed to use the Sa-Matra.
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