The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 17, 2019, 11:21:48 am
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  General UQM Discussion (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 Print
Author Topic: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished  (Read 30916 times)
UAF
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 134


Robot in Disguise


View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2009, 12:49:27 am »

Dragon, those problems with vertices and JNI, that's just because you use 3D rendering right?
If someone were to use 2D images for the game's graphics, Java would've been fine?
Logged
Lukipela
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3619


The Ancient One


View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2009, 06:28:48 am »

While I definitely like the idea of an SC1 remake, it strikes me that you're doing way more work than necessary. All the code for the melee combat is available from UQM – are you using that? And the graphics are all there too.

All of the ships in Dragon's remake are in 3D. If I've understood it correctly the engine is a 3D engine, and during melee the ships are just locked to a 2D plane. This makes them look pretty neat when they turn and stuff, but it also means that the UQM code is pretty worthless in this instance.

There used to be a tech demo up on RetroRemakes, but when the forum crashed it went the way of the dodo. I think I have it downloaded and I'll upload it for you when I have access/time, likely the beginning of next week.
Logged

What's up doc?
Dragon
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 86



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2009, 09:30:42 am »

Thanks, as it was only a tech demo (and I have nowhere to host it) I wasn't that bothered that it's not available anymore.  If you can dump it somewhere that would be great.  I seem to remember that bugs were found (and fixed) particularly regarding Windows Vista.  *twitch*

Java 1.6 out the box is quite capable of writing 2D games (I've run into full screen bugs in directx mode, but OpenGL seems to be fine).  That's using AWT straight. (Javas internal graphics library).  I'd imagine doing JNI calls out to your favourite 2D library would be fine also unless you have thousands and thousands of objects.

The idea behind a remake is that it must add to the original in someway - generally sound, graphics and/or updated controls.  Otherwise one could fire-up an emulator and run the game on that instead.  The gameplay must remain the same or be enhanced whilst keeping the spirit of the original.  I could write a strategy game like HomeWorld or whatever using SC ships but that would be a tribute to the SC universe rather than a remake.

As for being to much work - well - it depends on what one wants to achieve.

ps:  On the old RetroRemakes forum I document how I'd go about reverse engineering SC1's starmaps.  Unfortunately - as Luki said - that forum is no more.  I still have the plan should I need it however Zeracles has been volunteered to generate me star path connections so I should be Okay.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 03:56:53 pm by Dragon » Logged
UAF
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 134


Robot in Disguise


View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #78 on: June 12, 2009, 06:50:45 pm »

Enhanced strategic game will be great.
The ability to play it over the net is, of course, the most obvious and the bestest enhancement.

A special ability to each ship will also be great (right now the only "spcial abilities" are the Arilou's ability to pass fortifications and the Ur-quan's ability to singlehandedly destroy them, IIRC).

And then add the SC2 ships...
*sigh*, yeah, I've been dreaming about that thing for a while now.
Hopefully Dragon's remake will answer my wishes, becase it'll be a while before I can try making my own version. And even then it'll only be 2D images salvaged from existing things.
Logged
CelticMinstrel
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 519



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #79 on: June 12, 2009, 07:21:35 pm »

A special ability to each ship will also be great (right now the only "spcial abilities" are the Arilou's ability to pass fortifications and the Ur-quan's ability to singlehandedly destroy them, IIRC).
Well, at least that means that both sides have a ship with a special ability.

But, what special abilities would you give each of the other ships?
Logged
Spurk
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 115



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #80 on: June 12, 2009, 07:50:26 pm »

Actually, there were two special abilities per side:

Hierarchy:
Ur-Quan: instant besiege of fortifications
Mycon: full crew after every battle without recruiting from a colony

Alliance:
Arilou: fortifications do not hinder Arilou movement
Syreen: destruction of a Hierarchy colony gives the Syreen full crew

I had thought about what the SC2 races should get, if anything, if they played in an SC1 scenario. Since most ships don't get anything, I decided only a few should get special abilities. Here are my thoughts.

Kohr-Ah: Instant besiege (like Ur-Quan)
Chmmr: Instant besiege (like Ur-Quan)
Druuge: Full crew on an enemy colony destruction (like Syreen (but not quite as useful))
Utwig: Full energy on enemy fortification destruction (sort of like Syreen)
Slylandro: Er...

Well, I've had a number of thoughts on Slylandro. Since they're totally mechanical, it seems to make more sense for them to be able to recruit more crew on a mine, rather than a colony. Because in SC2 they're only a destructive force, I don't think I'd let them colonize, mine, or fortify planets. But because they use their destructiveness to replicate, I think I'd also make it so that when they destroy an enemy's colony, mine, or fortification, a new probe is created. (I've also considered making that the case for any battle they emerge victorious from, but I'm not as sure about that idea.) Obviously, if you exceed the maximum number of ships, than you wouldn't get an extra Probe, and you could always scuttle if you wanted to build a different ship from your starbase. I realize this is pretty radical compared to the way the rest of the ships work, but, then, that's true of the Probe in general.

So yes, if I were writing an SC2 version of SC1, that'd probably be the special abilities I'd give to SC2 ships and I'd leave the rest of the ships alone.
Logged
CelticMinstrel
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 519



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2009, 08:55:47 pm »

Um... I was thinking more about abilities for the remaining SC1 races, since that's what UAF was talking about...
Logged
Spurk
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 115



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2009, 09:10:04 pm »

I'm not sure I'd want to give every race a special, and I don't know what would make sense. I mean, sure, you could make the Ilwrath have an Arilou ability, but what would make sense for an Umgah? Or a Chenjesu? And you could say that an Earthling's point-defense means that it'd take out fortifications pretty easily, but that suddenly makes the Earthling a much stronger ship than it's worth.

And sorry if the SC2 stuff was tmi. I got the impression UAF was soliciting ideas for any ships, SC1 or SC2.
Logged
CelticMinstrel
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 519



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2009, 12:13:25 am »

Yeah, you're probably right...

And those ideas for SC2 ships are kind of interesting.
Logged
Dragon
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 86



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2009, 12:32:45 am »

I'd really love to add the SC2 ships but unless somebody else models them for me it's going to be a bit of a wait.  I have an unfounded suspicion that adding the SC2 ships would unbalance the strategic game so they might be restricted to the melee game.  It's all a bit blue skies though.

I'm unlikely to add new special abilities - not because it's a bad idea - but  because I don't want to add anything new to the scope.  Balancing the updated ships to play similarly to the originals is going to be a chore as it is.

Still give me a prod when I'm done and remind me about this page.

...back to trying to get a demo out.  Or possibly sleeping.  I forget.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 12:34:59 am by Dragon » Logged
Draxas
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1044



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2009, 01:57:08 am »

While having the SC2 ships for melee would be great, I think my biggest request would be to keep the melee freeform like in SC2. This way you can play battles in melee mode other than just Hierarchy vs. Alliance.
Logged
jaychant
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 432


Please visit my homepage


View Profile WWW
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2009, 02:28:19 am »

Heh... Having hostile Slylandro Probes could potentially be quite fun. They could replicate and attack both the Hierarchy and Alliance.
Logged

Please visit my homepage.
CelticMinstrel
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 519



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2009, 03:09:06 am »

Well, I've had a number of thoughts on Slylandro. Since they're totally mechanical, it seems to make more sense for them to be able to recruit more crew on a mine, rather than a colony.
But so are the Mmrnmhrm, and they recruit at a colony. Though the Slylandro may be exceptional enough for this apparent discrepancy to make sense. The Mmrnmhrm may be mechanical, but their ships can carry crew of other races. I'm not sure the same is true about the Probes.

Because in SC2 they're only a destructive force, I don't think I'd let them colonize, mine, or fortify planets.
This makes sense.

But because they use their destructiveness to replicate, I think I'd also make it so that when they destroy an enemy's colony, mine, or fortification, a new probe is created. (I've also considered making that the case for any battle they emerge victorious from, but I'm not as sure about that idea.)
This makes sense too.

Also, the Probe should be a neutral ship, in that either side could have one... since they are after all sold by the Melnorme.

I have an unfounded suspicion that adding the SC2 ships would unbalance the strategic game so they might be restricted to the melee game.
Well, since each scenario specifies exactly which ships can be built, I don't think that would be a problem. If you add them, you still won't be able to use them in the original scenarios, only in new ones.
Logged
Dragon
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 86



View Profile
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2009, 04:05:04 pm »

One area where I am going to break from SC1 is the melee game.  Rather than just handing out the Alliance and Hierarchy fleets I want to do something more like the Super Melee.  Also I'm designing with more than two players in mind but that doesn't mean it'll actually happen though.

It slipped my mind that scenarios restrict ships so that's a good solution to the SC2 ships issue.  However inclusion of SC2 ships is still very up in the air.  If they are then having Slylandro probes as a chaotic 3rd side should work well.
Logged
guesst
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 692


Ancient Shofixti Warrior


View Profile WWW
Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2009, 12:50:11 am »

Theories and pontifications be damned. I want to play something Dragon! Don't think about how it'll go, just make it work!

Says the guy who's been working on ASCIIpOrtal for months now.
Logged

A new game and it's code each week. Please visit Cymon's Games
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!