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Author Topic: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!  (Read 27766 times)
Draxas
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2009, 07:49:46 pm »

The assumption about the Kohr-Ah's direction comes from who they discover first. The progression is assumed to be:

Gg first. The Gg warn the Burvixese, who warn the Utwig and Druuge. Of course, the Druuge are discovered because of their beacons, and decoy the Kohr-Ah to the Burvixese using the 'Caster gambit. The Burvixese are cleansed, but the Kohr-Ah locate the Druuge and Utwig anyway. Druuge are cleansed next, followed by the Utwig. The Supox are right nearby, and are the next target. Once they are eliminated, the Kohr-Ah home in on broadcasts from the fledgeling ZFP, who are just starting to colonize other worlds. They are quickly exterminated. The Kohr-Ah could then take a few different routes, but the assumption is that the Thraddash are next; if they decide to go for someone else first, things would play out somewhat differently (and probably would result in complete cleansing occurring more quickly overall). Assuming the Thraddash are the next target, then the logical progression from there is for the Kohr-Ah to follow the route that the Kzer-Za took before SC1.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2009, 09:04:53 pm »

The assumption about the Kohr-Ah's direction comes from who they discover first. The progression is assumed to be:

Gg first. The Gg warn the Burvixese, who warn the Utwig and Druuge. Of course, the Druuge are discovered because of their beacons, and decoy the Kohr-Ah to the Burvixese using the 'Caster gambit. The Burvixese are cleansed, but the Kohr-Ah locate the Druuge and Utwig anyway. Druuge are cleansed next, followed by the Utwig. The Supox are right nearby, and are the next target. Once they are eliminated, the Kohr-Ah home in on broadcasts from the fledgeling ZFP, who are just starting to colonize other worlds. They are quickly exterminated. The Kohr-Ah could then take a few different routes, but the assumption is that the Thraddash are next; if they decide to go for someone else first, things would play out somewhat differently (and probably would result in complete cleansing occurring more quickly overall). Assuming the Thraddash are the next target, then the logical progression from there is for the Kohr-Ah to follow the route that the Kzer-Za took before SC1.

Exactly.

The Humans won't warn anyone.
They don't know were any alien race is, including the Androsynth.
And their best weaponery is the old nukes from the peace vaults...
In other words it is up to the Arilou to save our asses.

I guess you make a point about the Androsynth, then. However, keep in mind that the old nukes were effective against the Ur-Quan at long range. So it wouldn't just be up to the Arilou.

Hmm... this is a bit off topic, but I bet it would be really annoying to cleanse the Pkunk...  Grin

Not necessarily. The resurrections would essentially increase the Pkunk fleet by half. Since actual combat is different from melee, the Kohr-Ah would have no problem at all exterminating the Pkunk.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2009, 02:53:48 am »

The assumption about the Kohr-Ah's direction comes from who they discover first. The progression is assumed to be:

Gg first. The Gg warn the Burvixese, who warn the Utwig and Druuge. Of course, the Druuge are discovered because of their beacons, and decoy the Kohr-Ah to the Burvixese using the 'Caster gambit. The Burvixese are cleansed, but the Kohr-Ah locate the Druuge and Utwig anyway. Druuge are cleansed next, followed by the Utwig. The Supox are right nearby, and are the next target. Once they are eliminated, the Kohr-Ah home in on broadcasts from the fledgeling ZFP, who are just starting to colonize other worlds. They are quickly exterminated. The Kohr-Ah could then take a few different routes, but the assumption is that the Thraddash are next; if they decide to go for someone else first, things would play out somewhat differently (and probably would result in complete cleansing occurring more quickly overall). Assuming the Thraddash are the next target, then the logical progression from there is for the Kohr-Ah to follow the route that the Kzer-Za took before SC1.

Why would they fid the Druuge if they know to stay quiet?
The Burvixese, then the Mycon (who are communicating with their own ships like everyone) maybe the Syreen (Their only fleet is a fleet of space cities and escorts, if they're lucky then they are quiet enough to be missed) the VUX and Yehat and Androsynth, etc etc. No one is really able to orgenize an alliance to stop them, and everyone die...

Unless, of cosure, the Yehat show surprising ability in delaying the Kohr-ah (and maybe the VUX with ZEX), which will allow them to set up an alliance against the Korh-ah.

I feel that the best chances are again the wild cards - the Arilou and the Pkunk. Although it'll be hard to get an alliance going based on a vision.

Quote
Not necessarily. The resurrections would essentially increase the Pkunk fleet by half. Since actual combat is different from melee, the Kohr-Ah would have no problem at all exterminating the Pkunk.

That was a joke  Tongue
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2009, 03:32:00 am »

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Why would they fid the Druuge if they know to stay quiet?
The Burvixese, then the Mycon (who are communicating with their own ships like everyone) maybe the Syreen (Their only fleet is a fleet of space cities and escorts, if they're lucky then they are quiet enough to be missed) the VUX and Yehat and Androsynth, etc etc. No one is really able to orgenize an alliance to stop them, and everyone die...

Unless, of cosure, the Yehat show surprising ability in delaying the Kohr-ah (and maybe the VUX with ZEX), which will allow them to set up an alliance against the Korh-ah.

I feel that the best chances are again the wild cards - the Arilou and the Pkunk. Although it'll be hard to get an alliance going based on a vision.

You bring up an interesting proposal, but there is an error: If the Kohr-Ah missed the Druuge, they would no doubt attack the Utwig, going in the same direction as was assumed before.

On the other hand, if they attacked the Druuge, there may be a possibility that they would attack the Mycon and Syreen next. In that case, the scenario would be the same, just opposite (and the Mycon and Syreen would actually get exterminated). When the Yehat were attacked they would alert the Chenjesu and form a powerful defense against the Kohr-Ah. Since the Yehat are more warlike than the Chenjesu/Mmrnmhrm, they would be able to hold off the Kohr-Ah fleet long enough for help to arrive. Seeing the impending threat of the Kohr-Ah, the VUX would not likely help the Yehat, but they would form a powerful defense on their homeworld.

Upon hearing the news, the Chenjesu/Mmrnmhrm would immediately rush to the Yehat's aid. They would also try to get the humans, Umgah, and Spathi involved (probably only convincing the humans). When the humans join in the war, the Arilou would once again appear to help them.

The Androsynth might eventually recognize the presence of the Kohr-Ah and may choose to join the alliance.

So the alliance would consist of the Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm, Yehat, Shofixti, Humans, Arilou, and possibly Androsynth. Also, the VUX would be ready to fight should the Kohr-Ah choose to attack them. The scenario would actually be much better than the previous one in which an alliance would be nigh impossible due to destruction of the Chenjesu, and therefore lack of good leadership.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2009, 06:35:03 pm »

The Kohr-Ah attacking the Druuge and Utwig is a foregone conclusion; both races were detected long before they were warned by the Burvixese, as in the original SC2 scenario. The Druuge had their advertising beacons active, which were especially powerful and stuck out like a sore thumb, and the Utwig were picked up through their usual comm chatter, probably with the Burvixese. The Kohr-Ah went for the Burvixese first because they were clearly marked, but the only reason they didn't follow that up with the Druuge immediately was because they engaged the Kzer-Za in the Doctrinal Conflict. You'll notice that once the Death March starts, the Kohr-Ah pick up right where they left off, heading straight for Druuge space first.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2009, 09:08:10 pm »

That's what I thought too.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2009, 10:03:36 pm »

I remember that the Kohr-ah went clockwise with their match.
Unless they start it with the Utwig and Supox (I don't remember) then they (the Utwig and Supox) are the last in their march.
At any case they get the Mycon right after the Druuge, which makes sense because they are the strongest hyperwave signal out there.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2009, 10:30:04 pm »

It is not pre-set in the game what order the races get exterminated in. The Kohr-Ah simply start with the Druuge and move to the nearest race after exterminating each race. However, the Kohr-Ah would go first for the races they know about, not search for more life first. It is acceptable to assume that the Kohr-Ah already knew about the Utwig.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2009, 11:18:49 pm »

It is acceptable to assume that the Kohr-Ah already knew about the Utwig.

Why?
I don't even recall any evidence that the Utwing and Burvixese knew about eachother.
As you said the Kohr-ah knew about the Druuge. They will continue to the Mycon from there.

But even if they knew about the Utwing, and will destroy the Supox next for being close, the Kohr-ah would've probably pick Mycon signals from when they exterminated the Burvixese or Druuge more strongly then Thraddash signals.

Therefore their next target will, at any case, be the Mycon.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2009, 12:13:38 am »

Why?
I don't even recall any evidence that the Utwing and Burvixese knew about eachother.
As you said the Kohr-ah knew about the Druuge. They will continue to the Mycon from there.

But even if they knew about the Utwing, and will destroy the Supox next for being close, the Kohr-ah would've probably pick Mycon signals from when they exterminated the Burvixese or Druuge more strongly then Thraddash signals.

Therefore their next target will, at any case, be the Mycon.

You are assuming that the best case scenario would happen. If they go for the Mycon first, like I already stated, the alliance has much more of a chance of succeeding because the Chenjesu are not destroyed. This is possible. But the thing is, I think it's more likely that they would attack the Utwig. In that case, they would no doubt move towards the Thraddash or Zoq-Fot-Pik (though I think they would never even find the Zoq-Fot-Pik, because the Kzer-Za never did) and follow the same path as the Kzer-Za (which would result in loss of organization).
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2009, 01:34:26 am »

Why would they move to the Thraddash and not to the Mycon?
The Mycon seem more technology advanced, which probably means stronger hyperspace broadcasts.
Also, they probably detected the Mycon when the went for the Burvixese, and you claimed that they will try to cleanse the race in the order they detected them. Which means Mycon before Thraddash.

The Mycon are also closer then the Thraddash and ZFP, which is yet another reason to cleanse them first.

So I believe the most probable scenario is that the Kohr-ah will move against the Mycon after the Druuge. If they care about the order in which they detected races then they'll do it after cleansing the Utwig, if not then they'll do it right after destroying the Druuge.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2009, 03:05:54 am »

The Kohr-Ah would not be able to tell who is more advanced from such long distance. Other than that I am unable to argue against what you're saying.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #87 on: May 26, 2009, 04:17:57 pm »

Why would they move to the Thraddash and not to the Mycon?
The Mycon seem more technology advanced, which probably means stronger hyperspace broadcasts.
Also, they probably detected the Mycon when the went for the Burvixese, and you claimed that they will try to cleanse the race in the order they detected them. Which means Mycon before Thraddash.

More powerful hyperwave broadcasts mean nothing. Remember that the Kzer-Za picked up standard radio broadcasts from Earth before they had even entered our sector of the galaxy, and before Humans had even achieved spaceflight, let alone hyperwave technology. The Ur-Quan will find you, and will be hunting you long before you realize they even exist.

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The Mycon are also closer then the Thraddash and ZFP, which is yet another reason to cleanse them first.

I consistently operate under the assumption that the Kohr-Ah go for known races first, then default to proximity (presumably because as stated above, they really aren't all that clueless as to where anyone is). Gg, Burvixese, Druuge is a given. Utwig are probably next because they are known, and then Supox are the closest. From there, Mycon no longer have proximity, and the next target is the ZFP.

Quote
So I believe the most probable scenario is that the Kohr-ah will move against the Mycon after the Druuge. If they care about the order in which they detected races then they'll do it after cleansing the Utwig, if not then they'll do it right after destroying the Druuge.

Not really all that probable at all. Besides, I've already outlined why this scenario fails to stop the Kohr-Ah. The Mycon are unknown to everyone before the war in SC1, which means they are silently exterminated. With that, the Kohr-Ah likely move against the Yehat. Even if the Yehat have the ability to warn of the attack (which would include Chenjesu, starting the ball rolling for an Alliance), they would also be wiped out before anyone could help them, thus crushing the primary military backbone of the original Alliance. By the time the distant fleets could organize and move against the Kohr-Ah, they are probably already done mopping up the VUX, possibly Syreen as well, and are advancing toward the Shofixti. Who are the members of the grand alliance who are going to stop them? Chenjesu, Mmrnhrm, Humans, Arilou, Shofixti, and possibly Umgah (if the Arilou decide to try to recruit them), Ilwrath (if they don't try to execute any potential allies they come across), Pkunk (if the Chenjesu even know of their existence yet, which is doubtful, since they weren't recruited in SC1), ZFP (same story as the Pkunk), and Spathi (in the even more unlikely scenario that the already recruited Umgah get serious enough to ask them, and the Spathi are level-headed and brave enough to even consider accepting ...yeah). This scenario is bad news for the alliance, since while they do have the tactical strengths of the Chenjesu, they lack the military might of the Yehat; most of the other races that would be included are either weak (Ilwrath, Pkunk, ZFP, Shofixti excepting the Precursor bomb), unreliable (Spathi, Arilou), or too few to make a difference (Arilou again, ZFP again, Mmrnhrm as well though they tend to act as a combined force with the Chenjesu). The Humans become the industrial backbone of the alliance, but they also sit right in the path of the oncoming Kohr-Ah fleet.

From here, the scenario plays out in a familiar way. The alliance battle lines are drawn in Shofixti space, but are smashed by the Kohr-Ah with ease: massive numbers, unfamiliar and advanced technology, new tactics, and a hastily assembled force standing against on that has been slaughtering foes for millennia work against the alliance in a brutal fashion. The few survivors retreat to Delta Gorno to make a stand with the remains of the Shofixti fleet. An infamous and well-known scenario plays out, and 1/3 of the Kohr-Ah fleet is destroyed, but so are the last of the main alliance comba forces, and the Shofixti are wiped from the face of the galaxy. All races scramble to build as quickly as possible and reinforce their lines, but the Kohr-Ah relentlessly advance. A small fleet of the remaining Humans, Arilou, and a scattering of a few other assorted races attempt to hold out for reinforcements at Sol; they fail. Humanity is cleansed, and the Arilou drop out of the war. From here it is a quick downward spiral, as each race finds themselves with fewer and fewer ships each time they try and fail to hold the line for each member race. The Pkunk fall next, and the Kohr-Ah smash into the Chenjesu - Mmrnhrm - Ilwrath forces and decimate them. All 3 races are cleansed, and without the resolve and tactics of the Chenjesu to hold the alliance together, the rest of the member races (if there are any left) retreat to their own spheres of influence to try and prepare for the inevitable. The remainder of the Death March is abject slaughter, and the order hardly matters. Our sector is cleansed in record time, the Kohr-Ah having taken a mere 1.5 - 2 years to finish the job. They head to the next sector, where the Kzer-Za are furiously trying to subjugate the races that still resist their control. The Doctrinal Conflict is engaged once more, though it is a battle the Kohr-Ah are fated to lose.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #88 on: May 26, 2009, 07:38:56 pm »

If the Kohr-Ah came first, I think the Arilou would have stepped up earlier.  They were happy with the Green Ur-Quan and the slave shield solution because it protected us, but the threat of annihilation from the Kohr-Ah would cause a more urgent response.

Some other species would be bound to send small fleets of ships away from the home world to look for safe haven, and that would warn the other races.  An alliance of some kind would form, the Kohr-Ah would have to deal with the Supox and Utwig early on, which would slow them down for a while, the Shofixti and Yehat later, and the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm.  The Orz would also be a force to reckon with, wouldn't they be right in the Kohr-Ah's path?  There are also all the smaller races that would be little pockets of small resistance. 

Don't forget, the only reason the Alliance lost was because the Sa-Matra decimated the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm fleets.  That wouldn't be an issue.  If the Kohr-Ah were truly only slightly stronger than the Kzer-Za, the Alliance would have more than a chance, especially with the more urgent Arilou help.
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Re: Mysteries of the Star Control Universe... theories much appreciated!
« Reply #89 on: May 26, 2009, 10:18:15 pm »

girhen> there were no Orz. The Orz came much later, long after the war. During the war the Androsynth inhabited that area.
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