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Author Topic: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines  (Read 36987 times)
Dabir
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #120 on: March 21, 2009, 08:29:27 pm »

Oops. Fix'd.
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Son_of_Antares
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #121 on: March 21, 2009, 08:57:01 pm »

Yeti if you need any help concerning gameplay/system I'll be glad to help, 'cause I sure wanna see more BEL and BEL-like games on this forum, especially the OP. Nice going there with the new projects people btw Cheesy I too tempered with that idea but in MoO2 universe (to change the theme a bit and because I like that game very much also). I developed most of the stats/units/system modifications/storyline but got stuck with sprite art and wasn't sure how well a game placed in that uni would pass on UQM forums Tongue ...so I guess when I sort that out I'll try to get it up and runnin' Smiley
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 09:06:19 pm by Son_of_Antares » Logged
Yetiers
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #122 on: March 22, 2009, 09:56:07 am »

On a not-so-related tangent, here's a calculator for the probabilities of the various outcomes of an attack. Just input the defender's HP and parries and the attacker's strikes (the total number of strikes he uses on that turn), and whether the attacker is a player character (and can thus use bullseyes) and you'll get the results. This way you will no longer have to bear me saying "Sukuzu, you should attack X because you have a chance of Y of blah-blah-blah". Tongue

Yes, I know, I'm such a killjoy...

EDIT: Improved output format and allowed parries to be 0.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 04:52:36 pm by Yetiers » Logged
Son_of_Antares
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #123 on: March 23, 2009, 12:26:34 am »

Niiice Cool add an SC based icon for it and you're all set! Cheesy
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Draxas
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #124 on: March 23, 2009, 05:58:41 am »

By the way, I will have a completely different storyline from Luki's, so I don't need to be spoiled. I'll also produce my own versions of the units we haven't encountered so far in Luki's game, such as the Mmrnmhrm (if of course Luki hasn't already made them by that time). And thanks, Draxas and Dabir.

No sweat. Also, if you're interested, don't mind being spoiled, and Luki doesn't object, I've already created basic (though not 100% complete) templates for all Alliance races. I'm trying to flesh out many aspects of the game details at once, though, so I don't know when it will be done.

Quote
EDIT: I'll also have different level-up abilities than in Luki's version, to avoid 1. being spoiled by learning the new abilities Luki has in mind, 2. spoiling other players by showing them what abilities they may get in Luki's version by having them encounter them in my game, and 3. having some of my players know about some of the level-up abilities that have already been encountered in Luki's version. Also, my version will be somewhat more focused on talking, and on choices&consequences, so I might have some skills and abilities for non-combat situations as well.

Fair enough, though at that point you may as well generate an entirely different base system! After all, BEL's core is a strategy game, which has a much different focus than an RPG system. You may be able to refocus gameplay to meet your expectations better if you start with a system that complements your ideas precisely.
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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #125 on: March 23, 2009, 06:23:46 am »

Hey guys! Just a quick note on this interesting convo, main update will come much later today:

I'm glad you're thinking about a BEL project Yeti, feel free to use any and all material you've seen so far. Like Draxas said, there's a lot more material. It'll totally spoil this game for you, but it's yours if you want it. After Mission 1 is complete, I'll also be happy to provide the Excel based map I'm using with the graphics as templates, if you want ti. I do think that Draxas makes a good point about RPGing though. If you're going to change things up that much, it might be well worth it to redo the combat and map system as well. In itself BEL is pretty limited when it comes to such things, because it's primarily a table top game with a few extra flourishes.

As a general note on BEL, I've only come up with the concept. Draxas is already replacing me as a cotnent generator, and I don't really feel the need to restrict peoples access to the game. If someone else wants to run a BEL type game, they're free to do so. I'm sure there are plenty of commando teams out there, many with different abilities and weapons.

Also, interesting statistics thing you made. You know what would be handy as well? A combat calculator. If someone were to write a small program which allows me to input strikes and parries and get it translated into results (lost HP, stun, parries left), then that would save me quite a bit of time.
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #126 on: March 23, 2009, 01:06:25 pm »

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Like Draxas said, there's a lot more material. It'll totally spoil this game for you, but it's yours if you want it. After Mission 1 is complete, I'll also be happy to provide the Excel based map I'm using with the graphics as templates, if you want ti.

I'm somewhat torn on this, Draxas is good at balancing stuff and such, so I'd benefit from his templates; don't send them yet though, I'll prepare the storyline and non-combat areas and such first, then (if Mission 1 will be complete at that point) I will probably take the templates used in Mission 1 and 2 (from which I can't participate, having been in 1) and use them.

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If you're going to change things up that much, it might be well worth it to redo the combat and map system as well. In itself BEL is pretty limited when it comes to such things, because it's primarily a table top game with a few extra flourishes.

I don't see much need for a different system than BEL; I don't like the exaggerated infiltration of gameplay in non-combat situations, such as Charisma, Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate etc. Some (one-use) powers for such situations is fine, but then that doesn't require a different system. As for combat, BEL does that well, and it would save me time to draw on what's already been done.

Quote
Also, interesting statistics thing you made. You know what would be handy as well? A combat calculator. If someone were to write a small program which allows me to input strikes and parries and get it translated into results (lost HP, stun, parries left), then that would save me quite a bit of time.

EDIT: Here it is.

EDIT: I now realize that I'm not so sure whether a failed parry still subtracts from the amount of parries remaining on that turn, or whether you just keep going until you've gone through all available parries, or score success. I've written both programs with the assumption that the latter is true, so correct me if I'm wrong. It's trivial to fix for the diceroller and easy enough to fix for the probabilities calculator.

Also, even if my assumption was right, it seems I still need to fix the prob calculator, as I mistakenly made it only use one parry per strike.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 02:10:16 pm by Yetiers » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #127 on: March 23, 2009, 05:33:44 pm »

I'm somewhat torn on this, Draxas is good at balancing stuff and such, so I'd benefit from his templates; don't send them yet though, I'll prepare the storyline and non-combat areas and such first, then (if Mission 1 will be complete at that point) I will probably take the templates used in Mission 1 and 2 (from which I can't participate, having been in 1) and use them.

Fair enough. If you only want the basic stuff, I'd ask you to not reveal any of the level 2 stuff before it's been seen in BEL. If you take the whole shebang then feel free to use it in advance. I don't like my surprises spoiled, but since it's for a good cause.

Quote
I don't see much need for a different system than BEL; I don't like the exaggerated infiltration of gameplay in non-combat situations, such as Charisma, Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate etc. Some (one-use) powers for such situations is fine, but then that doesn't require a different system. As for combat, BEL does that well, and it would save me time to draw on what's already been done.

Fair enough, I just don't think the movement system is BEL is very conductive to RPG elements. It's a very much on the rails game.

Quote
EDIT: Here it is.

EDIT: I now realize that I'm not so sure whether a failed parry still subtracts from the amount of parries remaining on that turn, or whether you just keep going until you've gone through all available parries, or score success. I've written both programs with the assumption that the latter is true, so correct me if I'm wrong. It's trivial to fix for the diceroller and easy enough to fix for the probabilities calculator.

Also, even if my assumption was right, it seems I still need to fix the prob calculator, as I mistakenly made it only use one parry per strike.

Yeah you keep rolling parries until you succeed or run out. So you can use up 5 parries to counter one hit if you're unlucky. But you can also use 2 parries to counter 2 hits and still have 3 left in reserve. Looks good.
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Yetiers
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #128 on: March 23, 2009, 06:35:35 pm »

Regarding parries, that's not what I asked. I was asking something like this, to use an example: say your opponent rolls a hit, and you have 5 parries left. You fail 2 of them, but succeed in blocking the hit at the 3rd. Do you now have 2 parries left (5 total minus 2 failed minus 1 successful) or 4 (5 total minus 1 successful)? Note that I'm counting a stun as a success, unless you're already stunned. Has my example stunned you already? Tongue
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 06:42:52 pm by Yetiers » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #129 on: March 23, 2009, 07:12:12 pm »

Ah I see. In that case you have 2 parries left.
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #130 on: March 23, 2009, 09:01:49 pm »

Looking at the "diceroller" program it seems that's just what I had it to do; all that must be fixed is the probabilities calculator then. I'll return later, probably tomorrow.
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Yetiers
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #131 on: March 24, 2009, 04:40:16 pm »

A slight problem here: you say that a second stun counts as a hit; does that mean that if you're already stunned and roll a stun, you stop parrying and lose one HP, or does it mean that you just fail that parry and keep rolling (if you have parries left)? The diceroller assumes the latter, so it'll have to be fixed if the former is the correct one.
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Draxas
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #132 on: March 24, 2009, 04:58:19 pm »

Once you are already stunned, another stun result is considered just a failed parry. So you have it right.
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Yetiers
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #133 on: March 24, 2009, 05:38:42 pm »

Jeez, the wording of the parry rules sure does need revising. Anyway, here's the fixed calculator.

EDIT: Still not right... don't use it yet. The values don't match what you get if you make tens of thousands of tests with the diceroller and average them and compute the probabilities from this. I don't think the diceroller is wrong, so it's probably the probability calculator.

EDIT: The diceroller was wrong on at least two counts; it might be that the probcalc is good while the diceroller is broken. I'll look into it, then post the fixed versions once I get them to agree with each other (at which point there can't be any bugs left).


EDIT: Good. Fixed. The diceroller was the bugged one indeed (and it was such a trivial bug that I'm surprised it escaped my sight for so long).  Here is the fixed diceroller, and herel a link to the "statistics thing" just to have both in the same place. The two programs now agree with each other. They're friends now. Grin

EDIT 2: Yet another small bug in the diceroller fixed (this one added 1 to the number that show during which strike the death occured). Redownload it if necessary.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 12:01:19 pm by Yetiers » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #134 on: April 06, 2009, 07:24:35 pm »

I can't believe I'm writing this, but here are the rules for moving furniture. To be updated into the first post once I figure out how to smoothly add them.

Moving furniture

There are many large objects in the game, such as chests and tables. These objects can't be picked up, but they can be moved. They are generally heavy and require cooperation. Once you are standing by an object, you can move in any direction, both pushing, pulling and moving sideways is all right. You'll only need to rotate things to get them in through doors. Objects that are larger than two squares can only be moved by their short ends or the middle of their long side.

If several units are carrying an object together, they must all touch the base of the object. Carrying items like this carries no defence or offence penalties or bonuses.

An objects grid size is used to determine the movement penalties added while a character is moving it. If the object covers a single square, the movement penalty is -1 MOV.  If the object spans two squares, the unit loses half of it's MOV (rounded up). Thus a 4 MOV character can only move two squares if it is carrying such an object. If the object is 3 squares, the units movement is reduced to 1. If something is bigger than this, a single unit cannot shift it.

Rotating objects

An object can be rotated by any unit whose base touches the objects base. Rotating an object consumes 1 AP, irregardless of object size. In order to perform a rotation maneuver, the area through which the object is rotated must be clear of other objects or units. The necessary cleared area consists of all squares with which the object makes contact while being rotated. Thus rotating a 1 square object requires that all squares adjacent ot he unit rotating is empty.  Long objects can also be rotated by their wide side.

   

Working together

Several units can work together to move larger objects. The penalties for moving large objects are then reduced to the largest possible penalty. If two units are moving a 2 square object, they can move a maximum of the slower units MOV reduced by one, as each is carrying a square. If they are moving a 3 square object, they can move a maximum of the slower units halved movement range as the slower unit is then counted as carrying two squares.

Destroying object


Many objects can be destroyed by setting them or fire or hacking them to bits. This is not recommended for a squad of sneaking commandos.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 07:22:50 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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