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Author Topic: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines  (Read 36119 times)
Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2009, 04:43:58 pm »

Giving doesn't consume AP's when not in battle. Only opening doors and moving consumes AP while not in battle.

I hadn't thought of making the civvies a unit. I suppose that would have helped clear up the confusion as to what they actually are. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get to it at some point.

EDIT: Done
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 05:02:53 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Draxas
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2009, 02:17:54 am »

Since I'm not actually a participant, I didn't want to clutter up the game thread with this... But seriously, we won't see mission 2 until July? Is this due to some other obligation, or just because you think mission 1 will take that long?
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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2009, 05:57:51 am »

It's two parts hyperbole and one part realism. The game is moving slowly, and even though I'm taking steps to combat that it looks likely to go on for quite some time. The second mission probably won't start directly after the first mission either, I'll need some time off from sitting in front of excel. Not to mention that I'll need new graphics, and some other missing elements.

I've also got one tangentially related project in the works which might take up quite a bit of time, and one completely unrelated project which is coming along farily well except for the lack of good graphics. In addition to that work is quite stressful at the moment, and with the economy being what it is it'll probably remain stressful for a foreseeable future. All of this cuts in to my gametime.

On the other hand, seeing as the first game is going fairly well all things considered, I'm pretty certain that there will actually be a second mission.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 06:54:57 am by Lukipela » Logged

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Yetiers
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2009, 08:00:17 pm »

I've been meaning to say this for a lot of Planck time units already (OK, that's not much at all actually, but anyway) -- parrying doesn't make enough of a difference. Each player-fired shot only has a chance of 2/18 to be parried and a 1/18 chance to be parried with stun (but a 1/2 chance of missing), and different units don't have different enough numbers of parries (some have 2, some have 3, doesn't make much of a difference). To add insult to injury, only one parry dice can be used against one strike dice).
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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2009, 08:39:59 pm »

You misunderstand the parry dice. You start rolling your parry dice against the first successful enemy strike. And you don't stop until you've parried the strike or run out of parry dice. So if you have 3 parry dice and the enemy manages two strikes, depending on your success in parrying you can roll three against the first strike, two against the first and one against the second, one against the first and one against the second or one against the first and two against the second.

But I see your objection, parry dice aren't that great for the enemy. You yourself have more use of them, as you don't have to worry about a bullseye you have a 1/6 to parry compared to the enemies 1/9. 
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Son_of_Antares
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2009, 01:23:24 am »


Hey, wait a second....where's my...oh, NO! Great moons of Kyabetsu! My inventory has been ransacked! Grrrrrrr...oh, just wait till I put my paws and claws around your neck you filthy no good worst-than-Orion-pirate-scum space thief...or whoever you are! I'm gonna take my Paingiva', soak it with H2SO4 and make you swallow it in one piece so that the safety handle will dissolve while the gun is still in your stomach and hopefully it will make some fireworks out of your entrails, you leprous reproductive organ of a dead *many many more curses and insults*  Cheesy

No seriously, what happened to my flower? I haven't thrown it away or something...and I'm not a vegan (its against the Shofixti way of life  Grin ), so I haven't ate it; and I like having it around and hoping that it has some supernatural properties yet to be discovered...hm?  Huh *requires  explanation*
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 02:18:37 am by Son_of_Antares » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2009, 08:54:06 am »

Probably bit decay. I don't recall removing it, but I'll put it back.
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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2009, 01:30:16 pm »

Hmm, player (and Draxas) input required here. Is the Shofixti too overpowered? It seems that he can outmove and outfight most things. While it's the easiest unit to begin with and the one that benefits the least from upgrades (i.e the others will catch up) I'm worried it might be a bit too fast. Would decreasing it's MOV to 5 balance it better? Or am I overreacting?
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2009, 02:43:00 pm »

I have one more XP than him, so I doubt he's overpowered. Wawa, however, could arguably be too slow.
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Son_of_Antares
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2009, 03:55:05 pm »

As a poster child of a space berserker, the only good side of the Shofixti grunt is melee. Low STR means that he will never get better than average (or even fair because these Ilwrath apprentices are the most basic of enemies; who knows what plasma/laser atrocities dwell in the depths of this installation Tongue ) at range combat, and even the melee is good only 1:1. For example if I was to storm the room with hostages by myself, my death would occur  faster than that some Yehat bystander could scream *BRAAK!* after the fried Sukuzu. Sure high HP, superior parry and great MOV - but they are all required for good melee;  lower HP he'll get killed easier. Lower the STR, he will be left only with melee...and poor one for that matter. Lower the MOV and he loses a lot of his scout value, and reaching enemy gunners becomes a pain in the @$$ because the Ilwrath can outrun him and he'll take more hits by the time he gets to engage them with his claws. Lower parry or number of strikes, he becomes more average and not anymore "little fur ball of destruction" (melee specialist). And I'm not sure that there is a "weapon progression" for melee characters (ranged: handgun -> assault rifle; paingiver -> fleshroaster and so on) allowing the Shofixti Grunt to dish out more dmg per strike. On top of that he has no powers and the least amount of special abilities of all. His strength lies only within the ranges of  his team; leave him alone and he is as "vulnerable&fragile" as the Arilou.

Shofixti is made as a melee specialist and I think that he needs no changes. If some sort of equalization should take place, lower his HP better than to stripe him off his real (only?) strengths/make his level progression slower...or tweak the enemies a bit  Roll Eyes

EDIT: Ok, I may be a bit exaggerating but I really like the little rascal and don't wanna him to start accumulating setbacks. I adore him the way he is  Roll Eyes Smiley
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 04:25:44 pm by Son_of_Antares » Logged
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2009, 05:19:17 pm »

I do think that he is overpowered. Just a single movement point more is a big advantage, and he's got two. With the huge damage potential, he's be able to do a lot of the damage. And it's not as if he's just offensively strong, he's got formidable HP too.

I don't think Yetiers' argument holds; we've been cooperating too much for the XP difference to be relevant.

Maybe it would be better if all hp and damage values were multiplied by 10 or so (for the enemies too), so there can be more fine grained differences.
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2009, 06:48:58 pm »

I actually think he's pretty good as is. As Son said, his STR is poor, so he can't really rely on ranged attacks, making melee his only real standout point. He definitely requires a team to back him up, which is fine, since nobody should be trying to go solo anyway. Considering his role, superior HP and MOV suits him well, and while he may be very powerful at the start of the game, he really has little potential for growth... maybe.

Actually, this requires some clarification. Which attributes are going to improve when gaining a level, and in what quantity? The potential for growth is obvious in the cases of Arilou and Syreen (upgrades to their PSI powers), but more ambiguous for the Shofixti and Humans. Depending on which stats have the potential to increase, this could result in some of the characters winding up "broken" and overpowered.

Having been playing Hero Quest again, I can definitely see the parallels between the various characters in this game and Hero Quest. Unfortunately, the comparison breaks down due to some major differences in game mechanics, especially the use of fixed movement points. Here's what I've come up with:

Arilou - Wizard
Syreen - Elf
Human - Dwarf
Shofixti - Barbarian

In terms of starting ability, this is roughtly equivalent. However, the Wizard is not hampered by poor movement (nor is the Barbarian boosted by superior movement either). The Barbarian is the superior fighter in Hero Quest merely by virtue of starting with a superior sword, whereas the Shofixti has his melee skills built in, which makes it difficult or impossible for otehrs to catch up. The Shofixti shares the Barbarian's strength of body, but does not possess the Barbarian's chief weakness: vastly diminished ability to resist spells. He also does not have the Barbarian's ability to use the top level equipment; this seems to be the domain of Humans alone. Speaking of Humans, they seem to fulfill a different role than the Dwarf; in the absence of traps, the Dwarf is a mid-high level combatant with slightly less HP and slightly more magic resistance than the Barbarian. While the HP is reflected in the Human, the combat ability seems to trend more toward top-level ranged specialist.

I don't even know if I said anything sensible or relevant in the last paragraph.

I guess the bottom line is that in order to make a judgement call on the relative power of the Shofixti vs. everyone else, I would need to see the full picture on how each of their ability levels will progress as the game goes on.
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2009, 06:49:24 pm »

By the way, a suggestion related to Sukuzu -
Both Bach and Sukuzu are "damage-dealer" types of characters; one is melee and another one is ranged, but in practice this doesn't make enough of a difference gameplay-wise. Maybe, to further accentuate the difference, we could make Sukuzu a heavy-hitter, while I would remain a regular fighter. What I'm suggesting is significantly lowering his damage output so that he's not as useful as me in combat against mediocre enemies, but giving him a (reusable, but with an interval of, say, two or three turns between two uses) special ability to deal a very strong blow to one enemy -- maybe a "charge" type of thing where he has to first run, say, two squares to the selected enemy unit (to get momentum for the blow), possibly necessarily in a straight line.

Of course, if we go with this, we'll have to increase the XP gained for defeating more powerful enemies, so that Sukuzu doesn't lag behind Bach.

Note that I didn't think the numbers through, they're just examples to avoid using "x"'s.
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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2009, 06:49:36 pm »

Cutting one movement point might do the trick. He'd still be faster than the rest of you, but not obscenely faster as now. And he'd still be able to move 2 squares and use 2AP or 4 squares and use 1. As for the brawn, I think he might need it once you encounter larger groups of enemies. The one potential place you've encountered was disarmed by the Syreen Song. Another alternative would be to lower XP limits for the others.

I'll hold off for a few more turns before I make any changes though.

EDIT: Huh, two others posts made at the same time.

Well, levels are about to come into play soon anyway. Basically, once you level, you get two choose between a defensive, offensive and general upgrade. Upgrades can be abilities, (modifications that are in play all the time and increase your potential), Powers (usually non rechargeable spells) and stat boosts. General is the least imaginative area, mainly modifications to stats and abilities that are for special situations.

I think you nailed it pretty good in your last paragraph Draxas. I need to have a think about how to differentiate the ranged and melee fighter better. It might also be a level design issue, larger groups of enemies would negate the Shofixtis abilities.

Yetis idea has merit too, I've been thinking about something similar. I just need to figure out how to do it well.

Thanks for brainstorming with me guys, your advice is all very valuable.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 06:59:53 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2009, 07:09:54 pm »

Well, levels are about to come into play soon anyway.

Well this could be the easiest answer. Just lower the bonuses the Shofixti Grunt would receive when leveling and equalize that with other characters with no need to make Sukuzu unhappy  Grin

EDIT: or increase the XP cap for 1 or 2. Also could prove as a good nullifier. Like the ECL rule in d20 (the characters that have higher starting abilities act as if they were few  levels higher (depending on how exactly strong they are) while still being lvl1 effectively meaning that if they want to advance to level 2 they need to acquire enough XP as if advancing to lvl.4 etc)

giving him a (reusable, but with an interval of, say, two or three turns between two uses) special ability to deal a very strong blow to one enemy -- maybe a "charge" type of thing where he has to first run, say, two squares to the selected enemy unit (to get momentum for the blow), possibly necessarily in a straight line.

As good as this new ability could be, I don't think that it fits for the Shofixti as a character. I mean they are not hamfisted Hulk wannabies  Smiley But there might be another solution for this - giving me the right to use my Shofixti Shword!  Cheesy or some berserk ability. Both can fit the role charging, slicing, dicing, anything. And I REALLY would like to get my hands on a shword...and use it. This of course can be implemented in future levels.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 07:15:26 pm by Son_of_Antares » Logged
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