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Author Topic: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines  (Read 35525 times)
Draxas
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #165 on: June 16, 2009, 04:58:42 pm »

That was not really the intent, though. I'll adjust the wording. It should read "This can only be done once per turn, against the first free strike."
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meep-eep
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #166 on: June 16, 2009, 09:37:02 pm »

Ok, I've moved it to under "Passive powers" in the units/items index.
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Re: SC:BEL units/items index
« Reply #167 on: June 16, 2009, 09:43:55 pm »

Added the list to the units thread, thanks meep. It makes it much clearer and easier to find things. Also, thanks to Draxas for clarifying that rule.
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meep-eep
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #168 on: June 16, 2009, 11:54:19 pm »

You're welcome.
So will you be maintaining the list from now on?

Also, I'd put a horizontal line between your introduction and the start of the list.
Oh, and as you've been the only one posting in that thread up until recently (if I'm not mistaken), maybe you'll want to delete those last few postings of us commenting on the misplaced map.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 11:58:33 pm by meep-eep » Logged

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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #169 on: June 17, 2009, 09:18:54 pm »

Yeah, I'll keep it up to date from now, thanks for the suggestions.
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Son_of_Antares
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #170 on: July 03, 2009, 03:39:32 pm »

As strange as it may be, I find the ending presented by our GM quite more appealing than if we were ever to get to the end of the mission - a true cliffhanger that will forever be left shrouded with mystery! Cheesy A+ quality fuel for someones imagination and a best way to end a good story, I say Smiley because the best stories are left unfinished and untold...

Well done Luki! Cool
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Alvarin
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #171 on: July 03, 2009, 11:19:40 pm »

It's been a nice read , I didn't want to interrupt while it was going , but here are my thoughts on the issue - The planning on the move in the middle of combat is absolutely wrong ! You might plan ahead when in safe position , but once engagement started - everybody is on his own , acting his character . It is , of course , possible to shout out during the fight , but no strategies during that (very short) time . Another thing was the artefacts - detailed function description is wrong - if the party wants to find out what it does - they have to experiment (and risk taking damage) .
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Koosemose
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #172 on: July 04, 2009, 08:30:13 am »

Yeah this whole thing has been an absolute blast to read. I gotta agree that the detailed planning in the midst of the combat is a bit iffy, but on the other hand this is supposed to be a well-trained team who would have procedures for action for a large variety of situations worked out well ahead of time, but that's not really feasible for a game.

Personally I think giving the information on how items function works quite well for this sort of game. While it works for a standard Pen and Paper RPG for players to have to test to find out what an unknown object does which can lead to whole other adventures, it doesn't really work so well on a game of this sort which is more about the tactics than the role-playing (though everyones roleplaying certainly made it more enjoyable to read). I do like that some items weren't made immediately obvious though... I still wanna know what the flower did if anything... poor flower.

Though as one point of critique, the way the Androsynth's Never-Suprised ability works seems a bit hinky... and seems to me that it led to part of the games slowness, a good bit of "open door, start combat with andros, close door, let never-surprised wear off" honestly the only way I can see for that ability to function well would be if the game had a surprise system of some sort, and the andro's weren't affected by it... but on the other hand adding surprise to the game would favor the players a bit much since enemies are reactive rather than proactive, the PCs would never be surprised...

So you would need to either make the enemies slightly tougher to compensate... or alternatively... when PCs come across enemies give them some chance to notice the players and if they do they get to make a snap shot whatever player is appropriate (generally the one that opened the door) and that would be a surprise attack, if they fail (or if some of them fail if it's done individually, which would probably work best and on the scale of the game would add negligible time to combats) the player's turn proceeds as normal and any enemies who haven't acted are surprised.

Now as to how surprise works... that would probably need some tweaking, don't want it to be too major because if it stays as is and only NPCs can be surprised that favors the PCs too much, and if the PCs can be surprised it favors NPCs more because PCs will have more chances to be surprised (since presumably NPCs die at the end of any given combat and PCs survive to potentially get surprised later).... It would probably be best to still have some parry chance, since, if I understand the combat system correctly, if there are no parries attempted there is an extremely large likelihood of all hits getting through (or maybe it's guaranteed can't remember exactly). So perhaps you lose a number on the parry, like if it's you normally parry on 1,2, or 3, you only parry on a 1 or 2 when surprised... I don't think simply losing a parry chance would work properly as it would have almost no effect on the first 1 or 2 attacks (depending on the original number of parries)

addendum: Oh and I gotta say I like how Luki ended it despite the team not technically completing the mission before time up, leaves a chance that the party could show up later, but not guaranteed they all survived... hmm that would make an interesting mission for the next team assuming it's all new characters... rescue the original team Smiley

And boy does all this really make me want for a SC RPG or Tactical game... or anything dealing with the universe on a smaller scale... hmm I wonder if theres any open source games that could be modded for this purpose...
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 08:35:31 am by Koosemose » Logged
Draxas
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #173 on: July 06, 2009, 04:07:25 am »

And boy does all this really make me want for a SC RPG or Tactical game... or anything dealing with the universe on a smaller scale... hmm I wonder if theres any open source games that could be modded for this purpose...

I can't resist saying it... Stay tuned to this channel! Wink
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Son_of_Antares
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #174 on: July 06, 2009, 02:18:27 pm »

And boy does all this really make me want for a SC RPG or Tactical game... or anything dealing with the universe on a smaller scale... hmm I wonder if theres any open source games that could be modded for this purpose...

I can't resist saying it... Stay tuned to this channel! Wink

And God  please let it there be more role-playing and less dry tactics Undecided
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #175 on: July 12, 2009, 05:53:35 pm »

Thanks for all the comments guys, I'll attempt to answer and get some discussion going.

It's been a nice read , I didn't want to interrupt while it was going , but here are my thoughts on the issue - The planning on the move in the middle of combat is absolutely wrong ! You might plan ahead when in safe position , but once engagement started - everybody is on his own , acting his character . It is , of course , possible to shout out during the fight , but no strategies during that (very short) time .

I'm not sure about this. The game is a strategic game at heart, and different movement patterns and action patterns lie at the core of it. If I ban that kind of discussion, what's to stop players from doing it in PM's or email anyhow? If they do it in the thread, at least I can answer and clarify things.

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Another thing was the artefacts - detailed function description is wrong - if the party wants to find out what it does - they have to experiment (and risk taking damage) .

I've worked from the assumption that once the players get their hands on something , they will be able to figure out how it works. I suppose this would add to the realism, but wouldn't it basically amount to firing/using each thing once while not in the combat phase?

Koosemoose: I agree that never surprised is broken. I originally put it there to make sure every room didn't get massacred before having a chance to return fire, but it didn't work very well. I'll have to rework it somehow, or possibly have Draxas rework it.

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And boy does all this really make me want for a SC RPG or Tactical game... or anything dealing with the universe on a smaller scale... hmm I wonder if theres any open source games that could be modded for this purpose..

This was one of my main purposes behind running both BEL and ABKS. Great sequels aside, the SC universe is big and rich. There is plenty of space for smaller games where you don't save the universe single handedly. If you're interested in SC on a smaller scale, PM me and I'll let you know what's cooking at this stage. No sense in duplicating efforts eh?

SoA: You may just have your wish come true. While we're hard at work expanding the tactical game BEL with Draxas (and adding a new dimension to it), I'm also considering doing a different set of rules for a more "roleplayish" game, which would share the same combat rules but bee more free form in between,. Sort of a cross between BEL and ABKS.
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Alvarin
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #176 on: July 13, 2009, 09:05:42 am »

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... what's to stop players from doing it in PM's or email anyhow?
How about personal integrity ?
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... once the players get their hands on something , they will be able to figure out how it works ...
For the weapons , yes . But not for stuff like the mystic staff .
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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #177 on: July 13, 2009, 03:00:23 pm »

How about personal integrity ?

Well, if your GM imposes unfair rules is it really a bad thing to go around them? Anyway, I think that's a question of taste really.  The game clearly showed that different types of players enjoy different things. meep and Draxas were clearly playing  strategic game, theorizing and plotting different combat scenarios. Not letting them do so would (presumably) have made the game much less enjoyable. SoA on the other hand, was playing it more as an RPG, playing a character rather than a game. Valaggar, when he was still around, fluctuated between the two and Dabir was more of a role player as well. For them the game may well have been more enjoyable in the beginning, when the challenges weren't as steep and didn't demand careful planning.

And I do think many of the rooms required this sort of planning. The game is quite deadly, and if the players do not coordinate well then they will be wiped out fairly quickly.

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For the weapons , yes . But not for stuff like the mystic staff .

Well they did have psionic units as well, who might be adept at figuring out things like this. Why couldn't the psionic units test things like this?

I think this is a problem in the RPG/tactical setup as well. In a RPG, there'd be no problem carrying around a few extra items and testing them out. In a mission based tactical game, using an object without knowing how it works in combat ight be fatal. It also adds extra turns and slows the game, something I've tried to avoid at all costs.
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Draxas
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #178 on: July 13, 2009, 04:40:35 pm »

I've always been a bit of an armchair general, and as Luki said earlier, the focus here is supposed to be on the strategic game. Don't get me wrong, I love me some good RP, but that's often unnecessarily difficult to do within the framework of a strategic game (which is to say nothing of the terribly unlikable character I inherited).

Without the ability to really plot out our moves within a turn, we would have all been dead very quickly. While the enemies we fought were mostly weaklings individually, we were almost always outnumbered (as is the norm in strategy games) and their guns packed just as much punch as ours. Without the ability to adjust our plans for contingencies or figure out the best ways to tackle a situation, we would have been toast very quickly. As it is we were in some trouble when the mission ended.

Luki's mention of a more freeform version of this game makes me a happy guy. I think a division between the strategic and RP aspects of the game is perfect; it lets everyone play the sort of game they prefer. That's not to say that they shouldn't be allowed to mix in between the two games, but keeping the focus on one or the other should only enhance the experience. I'm looking forward to the launch of both games (and am trying to keep up as best as I can with the BEL content to ensure that happens as quickly as possible).
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Lukipela
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Re: StarControl: Behind Enemy lines
« Reply #179 on: July 19, 2009, 05:19:07 pm »

Luki's mention of a more freeform version of this game makes me a happy guy. I think a division between the strategic and RP aspects of the game is perfect; it lets everyone play the sort of game they prefer. That's not to say that they shouldn't be allowed to mix in between the two games, but keeping the focus on one or the other should only enhance the experience. I'm looking forward to the launch of both games (and am trying to keep up as best as I can with the BEL content to ensure that happens as quickly as possible).

The branch I'm considering leaves the main strategic engine intact. I think the full strategic game with much RP stuff will be usable for those only want to play a board game, and certain other applications that are being pondered. On the net though, the tactical game slows things down unnecessarily. I'm currently inclined to leave the combat engine in both branches similar, i.e when you encounter enemies in the RP you find yourself in the tactical game, but otherwise do away with the turn based system. I've already taken some preliminary measures to do this in the beta game, only using AP's to move when not in combat, just moving characters and whatnot. I think that this will be faster and more interesting in the long run, for this sort of forum play at least. Using the same combat system is important though, since that means we don't have to duplicate our current work. The RP version could have more odd objects and such of course.
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