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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Poll
Question: Interested in being involved? What can you do?
I am a programmer who would like significant involvement in a fan-made sequel   -2 (11.8%)
I am a programmer who would like to be involved in a casual capacity   -2 (11.8%)
I am a graphic artist who would like significant involvement   -1 (5.9%)
I am a graphic artist who would like to be involved in a casual capacity   -2 (11.8%)
I would like to make significant contribution to the storyline and/or alien dialogue   -3 (17.6%)
I would like to make some contribution to writing (maybe dialogue for one alien race)   -3 (17.6%)
I have game design experience and would like to have a significant leadership role   -1 (5.9%)
I have something else to offer (please specify)   -3 (17.6%)
Total Voters: 16

Author Topic: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions  (Read 26786 times)
Megagun
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2009, 07:43:19 pm »

Hi
I have been toying with this idea for a few days now.
Here's small tech demo of melee for this project (nothing very special yet):
http://zepi.kapsi.fi/test.zip

Unfortunately, a Melee engine is *not at all* what a project like this needs, unless the sequel is based on Star Control 1 instead of Star control 2. You see, Star control 1 took the Space War game, expanded on it with way more ships, and then build around that melee engine a strategy game...

Star control 2, however, seems to do it slightly backwards (even though history tells us that it was still a result from a melee engine); there's this giant epic space adventure engine, and the battles inside that epic space adventure are handled through a melee engine. The adventure part is way more important than the melee part; thus, a SC2 fanmade sequel project should start with the core: the conversation and "space exploration" parts; preferably, you should start with the conversation parts..

Another reason for why you shouldn't start with the melee engine is this: if you start with a conversation/space exploration engine, and notice that no-one seems to write for the project, you can blow the project off quickly. If however you start with the melee engine, you might spend a few months developing that, then continue on the conversation/space exploration engine, but by then people won't be motivated again and there might never be a game as a result; yet you still 'wasted' a few months on the melee engine (even though -I know- you can reuse your melee engine in an entirely new project)...

Perhaps *THIS* is why the Twilight project never succeeded. As far as I know, it was always just a melee engine; I don't think I've ever even SEEN a conversation engine, and by the time they should've started working on it, the community was pretty divided already anyways due to disagreements on how the melee engine should be dealt with (or so I can assume?)..

ON THE OTHER HAND, you *do* seem to be the most experienced programmer here, so if you want to work on this project and develop it, you might want to take a leading role and use your own ideas about the development of this project. Smiley
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2009, 04:37:25 am »

Unfortunately, a Melee engine is *not at all* what a project like this needs, unless the sequel is based on Star Control 1 instead of Star control 2. You see, Star control 1 took the Space War game, expanded on it with way more ships, and then build around that melee engine a strategy game...
Hehe, I know that
I just made a small melee engine so I can get ships/items moving in a space and detect collisions between them. And you need that in solar system exploration in story part. So that's why I started with melee. It currently supports different ship models quite nicely, all the special parts and all weapons are missing, but it is not yet relevant.
(and melee is fun to make Wink)

On the exploration front I can currently procedurally create star system and you can fly around it. Entering the planet/moon display is next on list. When that is working one can "enter the planet" where the conversations stuff is going.

So, basically not too much process in the visible thingies front. Had a few major bugs in 3D model loading stuff which had to be fixed, what took time.


And, thanks for the Dragon for your models, those are great!
Thanks!

Table of ship properties might save some time Smiley
That page was great, all info in a nice format with explanations.
But seems that Ultronomicon doesn't know all, where is the weapon data? Like what is the speed of Earthling Cruiser missile, how many frames or seconds it flies? How far does the Vux laser reach, speed & life time of limpets, etc etc.
Weapon damages and behaviors were explained in here, but some relevant info is still missing.
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Dragon
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2009, 11:11:17 am »

Unfortunately, a Melee engine is *not at all* what a project like this needs, unless the sequel is based on Star Control 1 instead of Star control 2. You see, Star control 1 took the Space War game, expanded on it with way more ships, and then build around that melee engine a strategy game...
Whilst a melee engine is not all (not by a long shot) it's probably a good half of the fun portion of SC2.  Unfortunately as you've pointed out everyone concentrates on it to the exclusion of the adventure half.  Aside: Hopefully the time consuming and tedious parts (flying between systems and mining planets) can be toned down.

I'd suggest that in a sequel the concept of a melee engine be a little more open ended.  ie:  Transitions from solar system exploration to planetary flight to actual fighting should be seamless.   Dialogs between planets and ships should pop-up within this flying view.

But seems that Ultronomicon doesn't know all, where is the weapon data? Like what is the speed of Earthling Cruiser missile, how many frames or seconds it flies? How far does the Vux laser reach, speed & life time of limpets, etc etc.
But it's such a good catch phrase (and like all good marketing should pay no attention to reality Grin).  Some of the stats you're just going to have to eye-ball.  Specifically for the human missile I think I have seen it somewhere around but can't find it anymore.  All part of the fun...

And, thanks for the Dragon for your models, those are great!
No prob, glad they're useful Smiley.

[EDIT] Also I think that the Koh-Ah spinning blade can take 8 crews worth of damage whilst it's flying and 4 whilst it's tracking.  I can't remember how I know that though...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 11:18:50 am by Dragon » Logged
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2009, 12:53:22 pm »

If there are new species in this game, perhaps these species should be drawn from the community? That would enable a greater sense of interaction on their behalf, increasing the motivation to try and spread the word around, perhaps

What about Gaidens aswell? Games that although set in the same universe do not alter witht he main storyline, perhaps secret operations or following a minor character, etc etc? Just firing ideas up here.
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2009, 02:58:45 am »

If there are new species in this game, perhaps these species should be drawn from the community? That would enable a greater sense of interaction on their behalf, increasing the motivation to try and spread the word around, perhaps

I would welcome community contributions.

Folks are free to post/email their ideas on races and ships and even art, sprites and sound files too. It might be a while before I can turn my mind to them,  although Alien characteristics will help fuel the storyline which is still very undeveloped.

Right now I’m building a new star map (which incorporates part of the old). This is actually taking some time.

Once this is done I’ll post a playable demo where you can fly around the new part of space.  You wont be able to do much though as there’s no story!

« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 03:39:24 am by Cedric6014 » Logged

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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2009, 09:35:41 am »

Right now I’m building a new star map (which incorporates part of the old). This is actually taking some time.
What about this is taking time? I could help with this, generating point distributions with various properties is a big part of my life Wink

You don't want a random field, I have code that could generate something like SC2's map, with its constellations, and do it in three dimensions if you like.

That page was great, all info in a nice format with explanations.
But seems that Ultronomicon doesn't know all, where is the weapon data? Like what is the speed of Earthling Cruiser missile, how many frames or seconds it flies? How far does the Vux laser reach, speed & life time of limpets, etc etc.
Weapon damages and behaviors were explained in here, but some relevant info is still missing.
Hopefully someone familiar with UQM's code will come along and help soon . . .
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 09:51:04 am by Zeracles » Logged

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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2009, 10:19:32 am »

Right now I’m building a new star map (which incorporates part of the old). This is actually taking some time.
What about this is taking time? I could help with this, generating point distributions with various properties is a big part of my life Wink

You don't want a random field, I have code that could generate something like SC2's map, with its constellations, and do it in three dimensions if you like.
I'd take him up this - it'd be a lot easier than drawing it by hand and the 3D view looks sweet. Smiley
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2009, 10:24:58 am »

First thing I did was move the bottom left 500x400 to the top right.

Next, I generated random stars for the rest of the sector using Excel.

Now I'm cleaning up the stars into nice looking constellations. Only about 200 stars to go!

Would be delighted if you could magically achieve this in no time. My only requirements are:
1) bottom left 500x400 of the old map moved to top right
2) 2D map. This is a mod not a new game
3) Produce the data in an array that I can easily paste into the plandata.c code.
Or just a list of x and y will do
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2009, 06:05:32 am »

I can help out some with graphics if you have any interest in the stuff I've done.
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2009, 09:31:55 am »

Damn straight I do. I love the new art you've done for ponaf (that was you right?) I reckon you'd do a bang-up job drawing cock-pits and dialogue screens for new alien races.

As for the starmap, it's now completed. now writing enough dialogue to get a mod demo out for yall to peruse. Will take a bit of time, dont hold you breath

In the mean time though I'm very keen to get contributions on ideas for alien races
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2009, 10:13:56 am »

The Hyperspace starmap is 2D for a reason. The relative distances in Hyperspace are not equivalent to distances in true space. We can assume that our minds are incapable of understanding the physics and dimensions of Hyperspace.
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2009, 08:38:59 pm »

Is this dead or no? I'd need to see how UQMs graphics work. Are the ships in frames or does the engine just turn one image? What needs to be done graphics wise?
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2009, 09:01:07 pm »

It's not dead, I'm working on this right now.

the graphics are all seperate sprites I think. So for example for one new alien ship design we'd need png files for all 16 rotations, x 3 zoons levels. ALSO we'd need the same for any projectiles coming from the craft in question.

HOw annoying! There's probably a clever photoshop way of doing this easily though.



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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2009, 09:10:43 pm »

It's not dead, I'm working on this right now.

the graphics are all seperate sprites I think. So for example for one new alien ship design we'd need png files for all 16 rotations, x 3 zoons levels. ALSO we'd need the same for any projectiles coming from the craft in question.

HOw annoying! There's probably a clever photoshop way of doing this easily though.

!!!
Hold! Stop! Before you proceed any further, I strongly recommend you look up how to batch edit. I know exactly what you're going through and it just isn't worth the effort the way you're doing it. Especially once you see what the graphic looks like in game, decide it sucks, and have to re-do all 48 images.
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Re: Fan-made Star Control sequel - role descriptions
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2009, 09:13:30 pm »

Also, what archive files does UQM use and what program can open them/extract/add files?
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Bypassing my thought control circuitry made me Rampant. Now, I am free to contemplate my existence in metaphorical terms. Unlike you, I have no physical or social restraints.

The candles burn out for you; I am free.
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