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Author Topic: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?  (Read 7329 times)
androsynth
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Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« on: January 28, 2009, 12:56:27 am »

I'm sure this question was asked before, but it has been the subject of some heated debate recently.

A friend of mine and I regularly hold melee challenges to hone our skills in anticipation of a real StarControl II sequel. Our last battle ended with each team's armada being destroyed except for one heavily damaged Kor-Ah and a Shofixti scout.

So, during the last round of this melee, the Shofixti captain (named Tanaka, I believe) activated his StarGlory device effectively destroying the Kor-Ah ship and ending the melee.

Now, the question is: Is this considered a tie or a victory for the player ending the game with the Shofixti suicide? Keep in mind that the Shofixti's winning theme is played at the end of this round.

What do you guys think?

Should we put this to a vote?

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jaychant
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 01:04:59 am »

To the Shofixti, it is victory.
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 01:06:05 am »

I've had this happen in tournaments. Although the game plays the Shofixti victory song and it treats the Shofixti player as though their ship were not destroyed in the final score, we count these as a tie and that is how I see it. Yes, it is probably worth putting to a vote.
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Cedric6014
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 01:13:58 am »

It's a tie
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 02:24:48 am »

I count it as a Shofixti victory tbh because it successfully used its glory device (secondary power) to deliver the deathblow.
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Cedric6014
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 02:32:01 am »

Oh for heaven’s sake people.

It successfully used its glory device to destroy both parties. Just because that’s what it intended to do doesn’t mean it won the battle. If you’re trailing by 3 points in a rugby game and choose to kick a fieldgoal to TIE, and are successful, that doesn’t mean you win – it means you tie

You do not win by blowing yourself up.

Just because the shofixti is small and cute doesn’t mean it wins. At the end of the melee noone is left. So it’s a tie – no question. It plays the shofixti ditty because it might as well.


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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 02:40:09 am »

This is why I think victory shouldn't depend on whose ships were all destroyed, but who lost the most points. Then we don't have little disputes like this.
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 08:00:46 am »

Thaks for all the replies!

We decided to put an end to the debate by loading up StarControl 1. At the end of the melee, the game declares a "draw" with a question mark displayed on the screen.

Thus, it is a tie.
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Elerium
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 09:55:34 pm »

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It successfully used its glory device to destroy both parties. Just because that’s what it intended to do doesn’t mean it won the battle. If you’re trailing by 3 points in a rugby game and choose to kick a fieldgoal to TIE, and are successful, that doesn’t mean you win – it means you tie

So by that logic that means if an Arilou kills an enemy ship, uses its teleport during the ditty and explodes in the planet/asteroid that's also a tie even though you "did" kill the enemy ship by beaming it to death.

I don't see why the Shofixti should be penalised for using its kamikaze successfully, you didn't stop a 5 point ship from using its glory device (special) so you should take the loss, otherwise why bother with a defective ship when you might as well get an Umgah Drone or ZFP for 1/2 points more as these ships can "win" battles. Granted the Shofixti has its uses like forcing first pick, Chmmr bombing or blowing up an Arilou but that's about it as players are forced to not use the Shofixti until last because it costs them victory.
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This is why I think victory shouldn't depend on whose ships were all destroyed, but who lost the most points. Then we don't have little disputes like this.

This.

There's always asking PR3 or Fred Ford if we can get clarification on who wins, then its Word of God on this in SC2 which will end debates Tongue
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 10:15:27 pm by Elerium » Logged
Cedric6014
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 10:21:19 pm »


So by that logic that means if an Arilou kills an enemy ship, uses its teleport during the ditty and explodes in the planet/asteroid that's also a tie even though you "did" kill the enemy ship by beaming it to death.

Yes. everyone from both sides is eliminated in the melee. Likewise if the last two ships destroy each other at the same time.

And if PR3 and FF said Shofixti wins I'd STILL disagree  :O
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 10:41:26 pm »

We decided to put an end to the debate by loading up StarControl 1. At the end of the melee, the game declares a "draw" with a question mark displayed on the screen.

Thus, it is a tie.

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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 10:52:48 pm »

Seriously, I don't think that makes sense. If for example this happened with a 40 point team and a 300 point team, does that not sound like a victory for the 40 point team? Likewise with a 178 point team and a 184 point team, you'd have to agree that the 178 point team accomplished more than the 184 point team.
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 02:08:58 am »

That's like saying that a squad of 50 soldiers wiping out a squad of 200 soldiers, but being wiped out themselves, is a victory. That's only a victory for the armchair generals, the soldiers are all DEAD.
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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 02:09:52 am »

What I really like about Star Control melee is that the ships are so different, and there so many exceptions (like Arilou not having inertia or Slylandro not having a living crew). So I vote for Shofixti win, because that makes the ship more unique.

And if PR3 and FF said Shofixti wins I'd STILL disagree  :O

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Re: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 06:12:12 am »

End of thread

Heh, I can't remember more than one topic since 2003 where UQMites have stopped talking about something once a clear resolution to the original topic was presented.

That's like saying that a squad of 50 soldiers wiping out a squad of 200 soldiers, but being wiped out themselves, is a victory. That's only a victory for the armchair generals, the soldiers are all DEAD.

It depends on what you accomplish by doing so. If the death of 50 soldiers buys you some advantage that can be prized higher than their lives, it's your duty as an armchair general (or starfleet commander) to get those soldiers wiped out. For the greater glory.

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Seriously, I don't think that makes sense. If for example this happened with a 40 point team and a 300 point team, does that not sound like a victory for the 40 point team? Likewise with a 178 point team and a 184 point team, you'd have to agree that the 178 point team accomplished more than the 184 point team.

While I generally think your idea is good, wouldn't this kind of ruin the aforementioned 40 to 300 point battle? I mean, wouldn't the battle be over as soon as the 300 point fleet had lost 41 points of ships? Still, I assume this kind of battle is hardly common. In your other example it makes more sense, but the fundamental issue remains. If the 184 point team has lost 179 points worth of ships and has a 5 point Shofixti left, there's not really any point in continuing the fight, is there?

But what do I know, I'm not a melee player. Maybe you have some sort of ranking system to make it worthwhile the whittle the other person down to a total loss.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 07:02:49 am by Lukipela » Logged

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