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Topic: Shofixti KYAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!! Victory? (Read 9078 times)
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Lukipela
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The Ancient One
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If those are your last 50 soldiers, then what have you accomplished? Aside from getting them killed, of course.
You've killed the last 200 enemy soldiers, ensuring that they can no longer threaten your civilian population, your civil infrastructure or your way of life. You've also bought yourself some time to train new soldiers while they do the same, and ensured that the next time they send soldiers their morale will be much lower, as they are expecting to encounter a superior force. Furthermore you've hampered our overpopulation problem by removing 250 potential fathers from the word population. Economically speaking, you won't have to hold a lot of parades for the heroes that return from the war, and you've probably also saved a pretty penny on medical rehabilitation of veterans since you now have none. And seeing as you've prevented your own soldiers from rising to prominence, you've also removed the remote chance that one of them might become a politican after the war, gathering followers based on his past military prowess and accomplishments rather than any sound political platform.
So all in all, the benefits of having all your soldiers die whilst wiping out the enemy are far greater than the loss of human life. I don't see how you, in good conscience, could pass up such a opportunity should it present itself.
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 06:56:45 am by Lukipela »
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What's up doc?
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daryy
Zebranky food
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me too,it successfully used its glory device
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Cedric6014
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I'm not sure where civilians come into melee tournaments.
Both teams start with 200 points worth of ships. Who has something left at the end wins. Why would you create a special rule for Shofixti.
Conceivably another weak ship could make some kind of sacraficing manouver to destroy a more powerful ship resulting in both ships' destruction. Is THAT a tie?
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Alvarin
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Look at it from another perspective - Kohr-Ah managed to lure the Shofixty to self-destruct . The fact Kohr-Ah was the lst ship and died in the process doesn't matter - Kohr-Ah wins .
I'd say a tie is a tie .
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Draxas
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If those are your last 50 soldiers, then what have you accomplished? Aside from getting them killed, of course.
You've killed the last 200 enemy soldiers, ensuring that they can no longer threaten your civilian population, your civil infrastructure or your way of life. You've also bought yourself some time to train new soldiers while they do the same, and ensured that the next time they send soldiers their morale will be much lower, as they are expecting to encounter a superior force. Furthermore you've hampered our overpopulation problem by removing 250 potential fathers from the word population. Economically speaking, you won't have to hold a lot of parades for the heroes that return from the war, and you've probably also saved a pretty penny on medical rehabilitation of veterans since you now have none. And seeing as you've prevented your own soldiers from rising to prominence, you've also removed the remote chance that one of them might become a politican after the war, gathering followers based on his past military prowess and accomplishments rather than any sound political platform. So all in all, the benefits of having all your soldiers die whilst wiping out the enemy are far greater than the loss of human life. I don't see how you, in good conscience, could pass up such a opportunity should it present itself.
So, basically, a draw. A perpetual war (and propaganda) machine like this one could easily wipe out the entire population of both sides while accomplishing nothing in terms of actual gains. So yeah, most of World War 1.
Look at it from another perspective - Kohr-Ah managed to lure the Shofixty to self-destruct . The fact Kohr-Ah was the lst ship and died in the process doesn't matter - Kohr-Ah wins . The Kohr-Ah are genocidal, not suicidal. I don't think "I tricked you into killing me" is one of their more common tactics. But you'd make a fine addition to my army. Just 49 people more who think like you and I'll show that Draxas that some people are happy to be sacrificed for the greater good.
That's a strangely effective propaganda machine, apparently.
Let's look at it this way: Who is the winner of the Thraddash - Ilwrath war (besides Zelnick, anyway)? While it certainly seems like the Thraddash got to take the final parting shot by nuking the Ilwrath homeworld, does that mean they're the winners? Or did the Ilwrath win because they wiped out the Thraddash first before being glassed theselves? Or would you like to apply the logical solution, and declare it a draw since they're both all dead anyway? Answer this question, and you can easily extrapolate it to determinethe winner of your Shofixti - whoever duel.
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Lukipela
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So, basically, a draw. A perpetual war (and propaganda) machine like this one could easily wipe out the entire population of both sides while accomplishing nothing in terms of actual gains. So yeah, most of World War 1.
No, a clear victory for the defender who doesn't get his lands sacked and pillaged, and a clear loss for the aggressor who doesn't get to sack and pillage, and has to explain at home why his troops were wiped out by such a small enemy force. There's nothing that says that the war has to continue after such a pyrrhic victory, it may well be that the aggressor realises his folly.
That's a strangely effective propaganda machine, apparently.
Are you surprised that people are all too happy to die for the stupidest/noblest of reasons?
Let's look at it this way: Who is the winner of the Thraddash - Ilwrath war (besides Zelnick, anyway)? While it certainly seems like the Thraddash got to take the final parting shot by nuking the Ilwrath homeworld, does that mean they're the winners? Or did the Ilwrath win because they wiped out the Thraddash first before being glassed theselves? Or would you like to apply the logical solution, and declare it a draw since they're both all dead anyway? Answer this question, and you can easily extrapolate it to determinethe winner of your Shofixti - whoever duel.
Although your example isn't relevant to the whole soldier situation (since here all the civvies get wiped out as well, it's easy to answer. The winner is the Traddash, hands down. They were attacked by an unprovoked aggressor, and managed to ensure that the attack cost the Ilwrath much more than they had been expecting to pay. The fact that they managed to run loops around the invading fleet and wipe out the Ilwrath home base is quite impressive. The fact that the end result sees them all ending up dead is irrelevant, the Traddash can declare a moral victory. And since there is no one left to take advantage of the strategic situation neither can claim a strategic victory. So that means one side has a moral victory, and the other has nothing to show.
This thread is much more fun than I expected.
Why are you people arguing about this as if it can be decided objectively? o_O
I don't really care about the Shofixti scout, I'm just here to argue 50 soldiers vs. 200 soldiers. And apparently also the Traddash Ilwrath war.
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What's up doc?
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Draxas
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So, basically, a draw. A perpetual war (and propaganda) machine like this one could easily wipe out the entire population of both sides while accomplishing nothing in terms of actual gains. So yeah, most of World War 1.
No, a clear victory for the defender who doesn't get his lands sacked and pillaged, and a clear loss for the aggressor who doesn't get to sack and pillage, and has to explain at home why his troops were wiped out by such a small enemy force. There's nothing that says that the war has to continue after such a pyrrhic victory, it may well be that the aggressor realises his folly.
Not to sound like a filthy hippie, but "There are no winners in war, only losers."
Besides, clearly the 50 troops must have had the high ground, or were far better trained and/or equipped, in which case the agressor's forces may have performed much better than expected. After all, if the 200 had spears, and the 50 had assault rifles, then perhaps the 200 are the winners. They're still all dead, though.
That's a strangely effective propaganda machine, apparently.
Are you surprised that people are all too happy to die for the stupidest/noblest of reasons?
Not in the slightest. Human beings seem to have what sometimes seems to be an overwhelming need and desire to throw their lives away. Good for you for helping make that dream a reality!
Let's look at it this way: Who is the winner of the Thraddash - Ilwrath war (besides Zelnick, anyway)? While it certainly seems like the Thraddash got to take the final parting shot by nuking the Ilwrath homeworld, does that mean they're the winners? Or did the Ilwrath win because they wiped out the Thraddash first before being glassed theselves? Or would you like to apply the logical solution, and declare it a draw since they're both all dead anyway? Answer this question, and you can easily extrapolate it to determinethe winner of your Shofixti - whoever duel.
Although your example isn't relevant to the whole soldier situation (since here all the civvies get wiped out as well, it's easy to answer. The winner is the Traddash, hands down. They were attacked by an unprovoked aggressor, and managed to ensure that the attack cost the Ilwrath much more than they had been expecting to pay. The fact that they managed to run loops around the invading fleet and wipe out the Ilwrath home base is quite impressive. The fact that the end result sees them all ending up dead is irrelevant, the Traddash can declare a moral victory. And since there is no one left to take advantage of the strategic situation neither can claim a strategic victory. So that means one side has a moral victory, and the other has nothing to show.
Well, one has to say that a moral victory really can't be declared if there's nobody left to gloat about it. Besides, moral high ground seems to be even, because both sides were wiped out fighting for the core tenets of their society: The Ilwrath were being undeniably evil by starting an unprovoked war for the sake of a better scrap, and the Thraddash were fighting someone (and being sneaky and underhanded about it to boot), which is pretty much their sole reason for existing save recounting old stories of how they did the same thing before. So it seems like a draw even in the moral theater.
This thread is much more fun than I expected.
Same here. Hooray for pointless debate and topic derailment!
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