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News: Paul Reiche and Fred Ford want to continue the story they started when they created Star Control II — The Ur-Quan Masters. «Happy days and jubilation!» «But wait!» «There is something wrong here... something which makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze.» «Please, Captain, we need your help!»

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Author Topic: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod  (Read 133305 times)
Alvarin
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #210 on: November 24, 2010, 06:59:40 pm »

I have very big problem with Spathi on that account - the provided offsprings numbers are enormous and ther death rate shouldn't be hight, otherwise they would not be such cowards. They should have had depleted Spathiwa's resources quickly and gone extinct. Other races are quite plausible from what I can tell...
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Lukipela
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #211 on: November 24, 2010, 10:25:00 pm »

Maybe mortality is sky high and the only survivors are the very careful ones?
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Alvarin
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #212 on: November 25, 2010, 05:03:35 am »

Not likely. If mortality rates were high enough to counter offsprings in the thousands, death would have to be SO commonplace that fearing it would be absurd. That is not synonimous with not trying to avoid it, but I am kind of sure in that scenario they'd develop Shofixti's mentality.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #213 on: November 25, 2010, 05:05:52 am »

Perhaps the Umgah accidentally did the Spathi a great service with the Evil Ones?  Wink
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #214 on: November 25, 2010, 04:38:06 pm »

Now that's a contribution offer you don't see every day !
It would be foolish to turn it down...

I've got a question for you though, but don't take it as a rebuttal. Many people have stated that what made Star Control so fun was that it didn't bother much with realism when it comes to physics, combat or astronomy. Would you say the same about its alien races, or do most of them fit into plausible evolutionary schemes ?

An interesting question.  When you compare Star Control 2 to a lot of the science fiction of the day, I think it's actually a good bit more plausable in many ways.  However, it was tongue-in-cheek in such a way that prevented the player from ever considering it "hard science fiction."  For instance, actual dialogue with the various alien species was always very anthropomorphic.

As for the evolutionary descriptions of the game, they are pretty good too (though you have to compare it with other science fiction out there, which has a pretty dismal track record when it comes to biology.)  SC2 spent a lot of time going into the evolutionary background and physiology of the aliens you met, which to me, was very interesting.  They also took great pains to explain why human-like aliens (Syreen, Ariloulaleelay, etc) looked human.  Granted, Star Control 2 is still far and away from Ascendency when it comes to exotic aliens, it's still one of the best game around in that regard.

I think the important thing, in regard to this mod, is that the aliens you encounter should be odd.  I'll post a few concepts in this thread later today to give you an idea of what's bouncing around in my head.
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Technolopithicus
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #215 on: November 25, 2010, 04:48:50 pm »

I have very big problem with Spathi on that account - the provided offsprings numbers are enormous and ther death rate shouldn't be hight, otherwise they would not be such cowards. They should have had depleted Spathiwa's resources quickly and gone extinct. Other races are quite plausible from what I can tell...

I actually thought the Spathi were very plausable from an evolutionary standpoint.  In the world of ecology, you have two kinds of strategies that may evolve in a given organism: r-selection and K-selection.  An r-selected species typically thrives in disturbed, turmultuous environments and often produce numerous low-quality offspring.  They also invest lightly in their offspring.  K-selected species produce few offspring, enjoy late succession (stable) environments, and invest heavily in their offspring.

Which one does the Spathi sound like?  The r-selected species.  They evolved under highly unstable circumstances (the evil ones), they produce a high number of offspring (Fwiffo being part of a VERY large family) and parents invest little in their offspring (Fwiffo was spoken to only once by his mother.) 

Also, it makes very good sense that the Spathi would be profound cowards.  Selection was clearly favoring those whom had a high flight response because nothing they could do could defeat the Evil Ones.  In the evolution of behavior, fruitless behavioral mechanisms are always selected against, so in the Spathi, you ended up with a civilization of cowards. 

As for the Spathi outstripping their resources because of their high growth rate, this wouldn't likely happen because, as is true of all r-selected species, they tend to have a high mortality rate. 
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Alvarin
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #216 on: November 25, 2010, 05:47:11 pm »

Thanks!

The question then what would they do now, when the threat of Evil Ones is gone and I highly doubght there is any other dangerous life left on Spathiwa.

Yes, Umgah did do good, unintentionally, based on that biologicl analysis Smiley
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 05:49:56 pm by Alvarin » Logged
Technolopithicus
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #217 on: November 26, 2010, 02:28:44 pm »

Thanks!

The question then what would they do now, when the threat of Evil Ones is gone and I highly doubght there is any other dangerous life left on Spathiwa.

Yes, Umgah did do good, unintentionally, based on that biologicl analysis Smiley

Well, once they moved to their moon, they would experience something called "ecological release" in which the pressures that forced their evolution have been lifted (primarily predation, it would seem).  During ecological release, you find evolution in all kinds of interesting directions (very often, unfit directions.)  If they weren't intelligent and technological, they would experience mass die offs (think lemmings.)  Otherwise, they would devise some means to control their population.  I don't recall in game that this was ever addressed (probably not!)
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #218 on: November 26, 2010, 06:50:12 pm »

Another possibility is that most Spathi are infertile, or there is a truly astounding gender imbalance. For example, if they're a bit like bees but that males are the workers and the females are few and kept in the center (rather than the other way around) then Fwiffo's having 10k siblings makes sense.

One wonders how an r strategy species develops high technology, though. Instinct-level literacy?
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Technolopithicus
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #219 on: November 27, 2010, 01:53:08 am »

Another possibility is that most Spathi are infertile, or there is a truly astounding gender imbalance. For example, if they're a bit like bees but that males are the workers and the females are few and kept in the center (rather than the other way around) then Fwiffo's having 10k siblings makes sense.

One wonders how an r strategy species develops high technology, though. Instinct-level literacy?

Yep, most smart species are K selected species.  However, there is a notable exception... Octopuses... which belong to the phylum of... Mollusca.  What are the Spathi most closely similar to on Earth?  Yep, it says so in the conversation text.  Molluscs!!
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #220 on: November 30, 2010, 05:38:15 am »

Hi Technolopithicus!    Welcome to the forum Smiley

I would like to help, but I've been busy lately.  I've been missing this forum...

I know you get lots and lots of offers for dialogue, but I'm a pretty good writer (or so I am told).
Of course, I can also do writing / dialog / creative, but so can everyone else;

I can't Wink. To do such a thing properly you really need native english speakers or damn good foreigners, and I'm not one. Tongue

Um.. I'm a damn good foreigner!  That's if you count a foreigner as one  that moved to a place like the US since he was four and only went back twice or thrice!  Um... a recap of my other "abilities" that I've mentioned before somewhere in the forums is that I can program a little (not much) and am learning to create websites directly through html coding (its fun!). 

I'd love to help, if you guys need me.  I'll try out the patch tomorrow (as well as look at the other forums).
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #221 on: December 02, 2010, 08:47:55 am »

...and am learning to create websites directly through html coding (its fun!). 

What a coincidence; I have been learning to create HTML and CSS code by hand. I can safely say I will never touch one of those over-hyped editors again.


Uhh... Back to the topic. Great job, guys! This just keeps getting better and better!
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #222 on: December 05, 2010, 01:20:45 am »

I remember this project from a while ago, and enlisted to try and help back then, but after a long period of silence on the forums I drifted from this place. So far this project looks amazingly polished. Are there any opportunities to help out with this still? I've developed my artistic and composition skills for music if you need stuff on this front. Amazing work so far guys, keep it up!
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #223 on: December 07, 2010, 09:47:19 am »

Thanks!

The question then what would they do now, when the threat of Evil Ones is gone and I highly doubght there is any other dangerous life left on Spathiwa.

Yes, Umgah did do good, unintentionally, based on that biologicl analysis Smiley
I think it was a rather hostile planet, since the evil ones were only on the planet with the Spathi for 100 years, and they couldn't evolve that much in that time.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #224 on: December 07, 2010, 04:32:07 pm »

So what's the state of the project? Is it done yet? Where's the download.

I suggest you update the first post in the topic so folks can find the latest news easy.
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