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News: Paul Reiche and Fred Ford want to continue the story they started when they created Star Control II — The Ur-Quan Masters. «Happy days and jubilation!» «But wait!» «There is something wrong here... something which makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze.» «Please, Captain, we need your help!»

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Author Topic: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod  (Read 133181 times)
OakTea
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #525 on: April 27, 2012, 06:39:21 am »

I thought the Umgah joke was hilarious.  I first encountered it by the time I had exhausted all the dialogue options for the Kohr-Ah, so there was really no point in conversing...I do it out of habit, in case destroying a dozen of their ships gets them to speak differently to me.  Most players would jump straight into combat, I'd assume.

I do like the idea of changing the combat styles of those Marauders however, but I think it should be subtle...I think a decent solution would be to have those encounters be piloted by Weak Cyborgs...if that isn't done already.  Smiley

I do like the idea of a returning Mmrnmhrm (I hope I remember how to spell that)...remember that they were created by the Mother Ark, which was never officially destroyed if I recall.  The Mmrnmhrm could definitely be reborn in canon.

I really like the discussion going on in here, and I hope the great team that brought us this mod likes it too!
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Quinarbre
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #526 on: April 27, 2012, 04:46:46 pm »

I thought the Umgah joke was hilarious.  I first encountered it by the time I had exhausted all the dialogue options for the Kohr-Ah, so there was really no point in conversing...I do it out of habit, in case destroying a dozen of their ships gets them to speak differently to me.  Most players would jump straight into combat, I'd assume.

I do like the idea of changing the combat styles of those Marauders however, but I think it should be subtle...I think a decent solution would be to have those encounters be piloted by Weak Cyborgs...if that isn't done already.  Smiley

Actually :
- Slylandro Marauders look a bit different in the last version (maybe only in HD graphics).
- If you fight one, their captain appears as a Slylandro (in the status bar on the right).
- They flee combat immediately.
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OakTea
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #527 on: April 27, 2012, 11:02:12 pm »

Ah!  I never knew that.  Those are great touches to add.
It would be interesting if the captain screen was blank in combat, and the player could question the Kohr-Ah about some of their ships fleeing combat....perhaps continued questioning could lead to the demise of the Slylandro.  Wink

There's always more secrets hidden in this mod.  Smiley
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Stardrake
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #528 on: April 30, 2012, 05:37:01 am »

To the third point, i agree.I would trust the Umgah of all races would have the ability to reconfigure the vessels to be able to take the Slyandro off their world. As per it be just for a joke...we are talking about a race that starts wars between species that result in wide spread genocide for laughs. I imagine they would find the situation Hilarious.........why did we let that race live again?
I can think of a few possibilities, actually. One is that there is a certain child-like naivety in their humour - they really seem to genuinely think that a laugh is more important than life (look at their ships, for instance - it's been observed before that they could be made so much more effective by making the zip forwards, but combat efficiency just isn't as important as a laugh for the Umgah). They play some really, really cruel jokes, but there doesn't seem to be any malice or hatred in it as there are for races like the Ilwrath and VUX, they aren't as dangerous as the Mycon, and they didn't seem to have a lot of loyalty towards the Hierarchy. The other races probably felt that as long as they kept an eye on the Umgah, they couldn't get up to mischief - but clearly didn't think of the possibility of the Umgah giving Marauder hulls to a race without spaceflight so they'd get attacked on sight by the Alliance.

Another possibility is that the Umgah are the second best known race for biological knowledge (with the possible exception of the Melnorme) and despite their warped humour are still easier to deal with than the Mycon. It might be a case of being tolerated because they're useful ("but we're watching you").

When it comes to reengineering ships - it struck me as silly too, but it's a call they made for the story. It could be that it's one thing to make a direct copy of a ship given the requisite technical data, but reeingineering the control systems takes time that wasn't available in SC2's timeframe. It might also be something that can be regarded as a gameplay simplification of the fact that different species might have different forms of life support required - while SC2 only talks about captains, for some ships realistically you're probably looking at the entire crew being of that species (Orz marines probably have to be Orz, for instance, and there aren't likely to be many non-Mycon that can even survive on a Mycon ship, let alone be regenerated by it) while others have featured that require the unique capabilities of at least one member of the originating species, possibly the entire crew, to function (psychic races such as the Pkunk and Syreen come to mind - and I think I remember reading somewhere that the Yehat shield is an extension of Yehat psychokinetics and thus that the whole race is psychic with the Yehat and Pkunk developing in different ways, but I can't find the reference now).
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #529 on: April 30, 2012, 11:21:41 pm »

(psychic races such as the Pkunk and Syreen come to mind - and I think I remember reading somewhere that the Yehat shield is an extension of Yehat psychokinetics and thus that the whole race is psychic with the Yehat and Pkunk developing in different ways, but I can't find the reference now).

The SC1 manual has some technobabble about the Yehat operating out of a nebula, and their shield being derived from their 'electro-nebular origins'. TFB have previously disowned some manual stuff (the Androsynth being the 'fashion designers of space', for instance), so this probably shouldn't be taken as 100% reliable, canon information.
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Stardrake
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #530 on: May 03, 2012, 02:47:53 am »

Hrrrmn. Maybe I need to chase up my combined SC1/SC2 CD again. I did find an online reference ("Their odd quirk of polarizing magnetic fields to their defense found its start early in Yehat culture; those who were best able to hone their strange powers were best able to survive nest-hood.", here) which is, of course, less reliable being a secondary source.

Mind you, it does make sense - the Pkunk are one of the most psychic races in the quadrant, so it makes sense that the race they split off from would also be psychic... but more concerned about powers that are of obvious use in combat rather than seeking to become one with the universe.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #531 on: May 03, 2012, 06:14:37 am »

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psychic races such as the Pkunk and Syreen come to mind

I just feel a need to nit pick on this issue. Pkunk are Psychic, Syreen are not and neither are the Yehat based on what is being said.

The Pkunk are Psychic. Capable off seeing glimpses of the future, dreams that allow them to see past and future events though possibly out of original context, and so forth. There statements about knowing what you are going to say before you say it is a result of them seeing the conversation before it happens.

The Syreen are Telepathic. They can read minds and even manipulate them with enough effort.

The Yehat are Psychokinetic if we trust the original manual explanation.  They ability to manipulate objects (In there case, magnetic fields)  with their mind. While I agree it is likely part of their being an offshoot of the Pkunk, the powers these three have are quite different from each other.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #532 on: May 03, 2012, 06:52:56 am »

I can't wait to find out how Zelnick gets out alive!  Arilou jumping in and saving them?  Orz pulling them *below* (caring for the humans more than the Shofixti)?  Or maybe...
(click to show/hide)
  Grin

Personally, I'd love to see him not get out of it... at least not right away. Instead, the Lurg could capture him and force him to use his expertise to help them get that Precursor ship operational. After years of imprisonment and forced capitulation the badly damaged ship is finally operational and ready to be launched against the Alliance, but the good captain had been secretly planning for this day and manages to commandeer and escape on the ship. He returns to the people who thought him dead (including a certain love interest) and just in time because the war is already fully under way and it has not been going well.

Anyway, that's just my own fantasy scenario. It would allow for the recreation of the fish out of water aspect of Star Control II as the captain catches up with everything that has happened during his imprisonment and it would allow you, as the player to skip the early stages of the war and instead jump right into the action.
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OakTea
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #533 on: May 04, 2012, 02:24:05 am »

Anyway, that's just my own fantasy scenario. It would allow for the recreation of the fish out of water aspect of Star Control II as the captain catches up with everything that has happened during his imprisonment and it would allow you, as the player to skip the early stages of the war and instead jump right into the action.

That's actually a great idea!  I could see it happening.
The great part about SC2 as a sequel was that it showed you the aftermath of the first game while being far enough into the future to show a number of unobvious changes.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #534 on: May 04, 2012, 05:48:39 am »

I disagree because I could never believe in story wise.

Think about it, the single greatest hero, the literal savior of EVERY race in this sector of the galaxy goes missing while on a mission of search and rescue. They know approximately where he was because they know the general area of the search. I would give in about 30 seconds after he disappears before every race in the alliance sends their entire fleet to go searching for him.  If they found he was captured by the Lurg,I would expect them not only to get him back almost immediately, but to crush the Lurg into the dust so far that their race is exterminated for the insult.

Okay I am dramatizing a bit. However, the man saved Billions of lives, brought the Shofitix back from extinction, freed the alliance from slavery and single handedly brought down both the Ur-Quan and Kor-ah fleets before they could extinguish all life in the galaxy. Do you really think there is any chance the alliance would not marshal ever last ship to get him back? Also the Lurg really do not strike me as the "War" Types. They strike me as subverters, using others to do the work for them. I see them as attacking the alliance from the inside, not a direct war like the Ur-Quan did.
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Death 999
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #535 on: May 04, 2012, 12:47:29 pm »

They also don't necessarily have their SoI right there... and they also look like they know how to hide.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #536 on: May 04, 2012, 05:13:37 pm »

I think it depends on how much of a threat Lurg and co. end up being. The Alliance isn't in the best shape after fighting two wars in recent memory and if their borders are immediately pounded by superior numbers, they could not only have much bigger problems to deal with, but they could find that this area you're in is now the heart of new Lurg space. So sending ships to search for you may be incredibly problematic and, while you're a super great guy and all, diverting a massive fleet to break through their numbers and go to a planet that is probably heavily defended in and of itself is not a very good strategic move as it's a high risk, low reward scenario that leaves their defenses weakened. Thus, while the Alliance is diverting ships to this attack, the Lurg could be making serious inroads into Alliance territory.

But regardless, you could always add a plot point that makes it seem more likely that you died - The Lurg could collect some of the space debris from your ship and dump it somewhere else as a decoy, they could tow the Precursor ship out of there and force you to work on it elsewhere so when the Alliance sends ships to look for you all they find is the debris of your ship, etc.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #537 on: May 07, 2012, 03:36:32 am »

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psychic races such as the Pkunk and Syreen come to mind

I just feel a need to nit pick on this issue. Pkunk are Psychic, Syreen are not and neither are the Yehat based on what is being said.

The Pkunk are Psychic. Capable off seeing glimpses of the future, dreams that allow them to see past and future events though possibly out of original context, and so forth. There statements about knowing what you are going to say before you say it is a result of them seeing the conversation before it happens.

The Syreen are Telepathic. They can read minds and even manipulate them with enough effort.

The Yehat are Psychokinetic if we trust the original manual explanation.  They ability to manipulate objects (In there case, magnetic fields)  with their mind. While I agree it is likely part of their being an offshoot of the Pkunk, the powers these three have are quite different from each other.
If you're going to be that picky, the Pkunk are clairvoyant, prescient, and whatever it is that allows them to reincarnate. 'Psychic' is a useful catch-all term, and is used as such in the in-game dialogues - the Chmmr describe what the Dnyarri do as 'psychic manipulation' for instance, when what the Dnyarri do is in the same region as the Syreen amplified to the Nth degree.
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #538 on: May 12, 2012, 03:31:26 pm »

I just feel a need to nit pick on this issue.
As Stardrake noted, all three of those count as psychic.

Think about it, the single greatest hero, the literal savior of EVERY race in this sector of the galaxy goes missing while on a mission of search and rescue. They know approximately where he was because they know the general area of the search. I would give in about 30 seconds after he disappears before every race in the alliance sends their entire fleet to go searching for him.  If they found he was captured by the Lurg,I would expect them not only to get him back almost immediately, but to crush the Lurg into the dust so far that their race is exterminated for the insult.

Okay I am dramatizing a bit. However, the man saved Billions of lives, brought the Shofitix back from extinction, freed the alliance from slavery and single handedly brought down both the Ur-Quan and Kor-ah fleets before they could extinguish all life in the galaxy. Do you really think there is any chance the alliance would not marshal ever last ship to get him back?
Yes, I think there's a very good chance they wouldn't. For starters, they may not even know he's missing, or they may have evidence that he's dead. Furthermore, as much of a hero as he is, he's still only one person. If they're facing a war with the Lurg, they probably won't have the resources to search for him.

And it would take a lot more than 30 seconds for them to realize he's missing, unless he happens to be in the middle of a hyperwave conversation with them when he disappears. (Hint: He wasn't.)
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Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod
« Reply #539 on: May 12, 2012, 04:57:49 pm »

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Yes, I think there's a very good chance they wouldn't. For starters, they may not even know he's missing, or they may have evidence that he's dead. Furthermore, as much of a hero as he is, he's still only one person. If they're facing a war with the Lurg, they probably won't have the resources to search for him.

We have done rescue missions for people, loosing more in the process. To locate those that have gone missing in combat today even if they are nothing more then a single citizen of the nation. Guarantee, his going missing would launch a massive response and if they did believe he may be dead, I would not want to be the guy on the other end of the alliance guns.

Cedric you and the devs have been very quiet for the last few weeks. Is there any news on the progress towards the full game right now?
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