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Author Topic: How does the New Alliance win the war?  (Read 10142 times)
Cedric6014
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2009, 01:40:44 am »

BTW, what is the policy about posting SC3-(actual) ideas on the board? Should we not post our ideas in case FF and PR3 use similar ideas and someone gets uppity and claims they ripped their idea off? I don't mind posing "disclaimer: the creators can use this idea as they see fit". Has anyone posted on this?

It’s an interesting thing. During the development of my mod plot I’ve been surprised on several occasions when some one comes up with a neat idea that I’ve already thought independently. It seems that those of us who know the game deeply can envisage natural plot progressions.

I don’t doubt that with all the theorising done about Star Control over the last 15 years most conceivable sequel ideas have already been covered.  I think it would be a tough ask for PR3 to come up with stuff that noone else has.

I just hope that he doesn’t read our stuff so he can write a new sequel without influenced by amateurs like us.

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psydev
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2009, 03:14:30 am »

They abandoned their starbase...

Yes, which to me would seemingly attract the attention of the Ur-Quan. I don't see how converting a starbase to full automation would be easy or without hiccups that the Ilwrath or some other race wouldn't complain about. 

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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2009, 10:00:19 am »

In-combat and out-of-combat speeds may be correlated, but are not the same. A max speed Vindicator is the fastest ship out of combat, but gets run down easily by several ships in combat.

Aren't the two speed values linearly correlated for all ships but the Vindicator, including the techy Ur-Quan, Melnorme and Utwig? I'm inclined to attribute the difference to the super-duper Precursor technology, which no other race can achieve.

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The Vindicator travels 20 hyperspace distance units per day at max speed (128). The Ur-Quan sphere of influence is 500 such units wide. In two weeks at Vindicator speeds, you can thus cross almost all of Ur-Quan space. Dreadnoughts and Marauders are much slower than the Vindicator. The source code may or may not have a value for the Avatar.

So if we assume the UQ are really outnumbered, the Chmmr fleet might get to the SoI center in just over two weeks, with Avatar groups engaging the UQ on the way while the rest continue the trip (blitzkrieg!). Add another week of uneven battles and it's remotely plausible that the UQ clearly come out as losers when Zelnick wakes up.

... or maybe the whole "I woke up after three weeks to find out that the good guys have won" was just for drama effect. Tongue

The Kohr-Ah join the new alliance against the Kzer-Za in a new game with 14 new races of early battle thralls.

I can't imagine the Kohr-Ah joining forces with anyone but the Kzer-Za...
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Death 999
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2009, 06:53:52 pm »

I suppose if the Ur-Quan were charging to the battle as well, that would help speed things up. It's not like they'd just sit there.

As for battle progress: massed Avatars probably would shred massed dreadnoughts effortlessly. I am not so sure about the marauders, though. A well-timed FRIED as they got sucked in would be a mess.

If we add in a few terminators, things even out considerably. They can soak up FRIED all day as long as they're not relied upon to provide offense. I'm not sure of the best formations to shred marauders using terminators, but I think some very efficient ones could be devised, in which the Kohr-Ah captain is essentially powerless.
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2009, 09:16:16 pm »

I seem to remember that the PC end sequence states that after the destruction of the Sa-Matra, the Ur-Quan went into chaos. I assumed that this meant that with the destruction of the Sa-Matra, the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah panicked and order disintegrated. If this happened, the allied forces would easily be able to defeat all the remaining combat ships rather quickly. I think when TFB chose to make the time a few weeks, they simply didn't think to take into account travel time.
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Cedric6014
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2009, 09:31:47 pm »

I seem to remember that the PC end sequence states that after the destruction of the Sa-Matra, the Ur-Quan went into chaos. I assumed that this meant that with the destruction of the Sa-Matra, the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah panicked and order disintegrated. If this happened, the allied forces would easily be able to defeat all the remaining combat ships rather quickly. I think when TFB chose to make the time a few weeks, they simply didn't think to take into account travel time.

I agree 100%
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Death 999
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2009, 11:29:27 pm »

Chaos comes in degrees. A degree of chaos that would make Kohr-Ah provide token resistance... I just don't see it. They had always done without the Sa-Matra anyway, and this event proved their philosophy closer to right, and it was they who had the stronger remaining fleet, and they whose ship is better suited to taking out the Avatar.
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2009, 12:25:52 am »

I can't imagine the Kohr-Ah joining forces with anyone but the Kzer-Za...

I can. It's a bit of a stretch, but it's possible that the Ur-Quan, upon the destruction of their Sa-Matra and their subsequent rout from that area of space, would choose to go back where they came from and might not want the Kohr-Ah to follow. It's also quite likely in my opinion that some sort of social upheaval would happen in at least one of the Ur-Quan races following the Sa-Matra's destruction. This might lead to a change in philosophy, priorities and (depending on the power circumstances at the time), allegiances.
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2009, 01:38:30 am »

As for battle progress: massed Avatars probably would shred massed dreadnoughts effortlessly. I am not so sure about the marauders, though. A well-timed FRIED as they got sucked in would be a mess.

If we add in a few terminators, things even out considerably. They can soak up FRIED all day as long as they're not relied upon to provide offense. I'm not sure of the best formations to shred marauders using terminators, but I think some very efficient ones could be devised, in which the Kohr-Ah captain is essentially powerless.

I don't know, there seems to be a problem with this type of thinking in the SC2 universe, even though it's the most rational.
(click to show/hide)
So evaluating what happens in ship-to-ship combat usually doesn't come out right for one side.

My point is that if a fleet of Avatars were to attack a fleet of Marauders in the seqeuence of the game,  they'd probably come out on top no matter what online players are capable of doing.
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2009, 05:46:44 am »

Chaos comes in degrees. A degree of chaos that would make Kohr-Ah provide token resistance... I just don't see it. They had always done without the Sa-Matra anyway, and this event proved their philosophy closer to right, and it was they who had the stronger remaining fleet, and they whose ship is better suited to taking out the Avatar.

Chaos in the Kohr-Ah's ranks comes not from the destruction of the Sa-Matra, but that their fleet simply drifted away during the attack for no apparent reason, save a feeling of mental compulsion deeply associated with terror in the deepest parts of their psyche. The perceived reemergence of their ancient, supposedly vanquished enslavers is at least equal, if not more, traumatic to both subspecies than the loss of the physical symbol of "rightness" in the Doctrinal Conflict. After all, as you say, the Kohr-Ah have been bereft of the Sa-Matra for millennia, though they might be upset at having it snatched from their grasp just before their victory. But both Ur-Quan would certainly enter a frenzied scramble for Excruciators, and possibly genocide against the talking pets, after being compelled by foes that they know should have no right to exist.

A panicked and distracted enemy, even one as powerful as the combined Ur-Quan fleets, would fall easily before a coordinated assault by the New Alliance.
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2009, 10:57:21 am »

So evaluating what happens in ship-to-ship combat usually doesn't come out right for one side.

He wasn't exactly evaluating things from a PvP POV. I mean, the Avatar is not a very smart choice against Dreadnoughts in melee, yet in the game universe it's supposed to be the very best counter. And as it was not built with the Kohr-Ah in mind, it's logical to theorize that it's not as effective against Marauders.
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Alvarin
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2009, 09:51:49 pm »

Expanding on what Draxas said ,  killing the talking pets (and I totally agree it's the first thing both Ur-Quans would do after being compelled to leave Crateris) will render the Kzer-Za mostly unable to communicate with their thralls, making wictory for the New Alliance easier .
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2009, 10:51:59 pm »

Expanding on what Draxas said ,  killing the talking pets (and I totally agree it's the first thing both Ur-Quans would do after being compelled to leave Crateris) will render the Kzer-Za mostly unable to communicate with their thralls, making wictory for the New Alliance easier .

I seem to recall that the Ur-Quan have the ability to translate without talking pets, they just find the task "ultimately demeaning" and don't want to speak directly with lower life forms.
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2009, 08:36:38 pm »

I've "discovered" an excellent thread with a similar topic from over 5 years ago... a wealth of opinions there!
http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=1266.0
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Re: How does the New Alliance win the war?
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2009, 08:48:44 pm »

I've "discovered" an excellent thread with a similar topic from over 5 years ago... a wealth of opinions there!
http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=1266.0

Wow, one of the old injection threads...
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