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Author Topic: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm  (Read 8268 times)
UAF
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Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« on: May 18, 2009, 07:55:46 pm »

Wow, I can't believe I'm posting here again after all those years... Anyway:

I've been reading around a bit and as usual I see some discussions about the usual stuff - Ur-quan, Chmmr, Arilou Orz and Androsynth. And as usual, people seem to give very little attention to the Mmrnmhrm, even when discussing the Chmmr (or so it seems to me).

Now when I was working on TimeWarp and had to give attention to all the races some ideas came up regarding the Mrn that I really like.
So what I'd like to do is to get some discussion about those mysterious robots. And yes, they are mysterious!

Lets see what we know of the Mrn from SC1&2:

1) The were created by the "Mother Ark" 1,000 years ago. The Ark is a space factory not indigenous to this area of space. It travelled here and begun producing Mrn for a time, and then stopped.

2) They have a plan! (BattleStar Galactica anyone? Smiley ). Not only they have a plan that was instilled (and installed) into them upon their very creation., they refused to tell what it is. Hays (the starbase commander) believe that they are some colonization vanguard or something. But that's his own personal opinion.

3) They are technologically advanced. The SC1 manual contain Ur-quan "reports" on the Alliance races. And they call the Mrn's tech "almost admirable" – that's a huge compliment from an Ur-quan.


Now the ideas I really liked in TimeWarp about the Mrn and that I'd like to mention here in hopes that people will see the great potential of the Mrn are two:

A) The Mrn have a mission that they would not reveal. Despite it they agreed to merge with the Chenjesu. One of the two races (and it might be the Mrn) had the technology to open the slave shield. They could've stayed separated and try to defeat the Ur-quan again.
What I'm saying is that they wouldn't merge with the Chenjesu without knowing for certainty that they will be able to continue with their mission after the merge.
In TimeWarp the mission was never revealed, but the idea was that the Mmrnmhrm consciousness can take priority over the Chenjesu part of the Chmmr. The Mrn are still in control!

B) There are many, many Mrnmhrm out there. There is absolutely no support either against or in favor of this. But I think it's a cool idea. The Mrn have some mission. Why should it be small and localized? There is every chance that countless Arks were sent across the stars. The Mrn are not even close to extinct – they are everywhere.
In TimeWarp the Kohr-ah cleansed them several times, and the Kzer-za enslaved them as many. In the past 1,000 years the Ur-quan fought the lonely Mother Arks still on their way. Small and still underdeveloped Mrn colonies, and even Mmrnmhrm armies with a still-functional Mother Ark replenishing their numbers.
And even now there are still countless Mmrnmhrm out there, working on Their Mission.

Well, I hope this will start an interesting discussion about the lovely robots, and their super secret (and perhaps evil?) objective.

Hey, one idea was summoning the Orz! Smiley

« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 09:24:19 pm by UAF » Logged
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 08:24:32 pm »

No offense but, didn't we already have a topic for SC mysteries?
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 09:00:55 pm »

Nothing relevant that I could find. Post a link if there is. Or just discuss matters here Smiley
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Lukipela
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 09:03:50 pm »

The idea of several Mother Arks is interesting. Hadn't thought of that before.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 10:01:32 pm »

Keep in mind the Mrns were a stagnant race, then dragged into a war on the Alliance side- every loss of a Mrn costs them a lot in the long run. As the main Mrn fleet was destroyed at Rigel it probably forced the Mrn with extinction, the "process" of them with the Chenjesu was probably to save their legacy by merging with a compatible race (being silicon) to start their species as one that can reproduce. That and they were good friends either way.

The Chenjesu on the otherhand being vast intellectuals probably couldn't turn down the offer to become a new advanced form of life by becoming one with the Mrn's superior technology. That and the Ur-Quan at the time were becoming the dominant lifeform in the galaxy. What makes me curious though is if they had the vast tech, then why were the Mrns in SC stuck with an interceptor? Is it because they're built as one specification that way and can't build any other way and the Mother Ark holds all the Mrn tech and secrets?

As it's been said the Mrns were built from another alien race from across the galaxy, it's probably hinted they were made by another force (hopefully not Precursor). It might be interesting to have "our" Mrns as some Ark which was sent to find galaxies to find for preparing (hence the weakish advanced X/Y form class the Mother Ark in our galaxy can only produce), but then ran into the Chenjesu, a non organic lifeform and became good buddies. Then possibly they developed their own sense of self with the Chenjesu's help, but with a lot of secrets that they still kept under wraps? So they became more than just terraforming tools and a new species.

There's also the realms of possibility that if there were more Mother Ark's out there, some might be geared to producing Battleship Mrns, others being Colonization Mrns (to terraform planets for their master race) and so on. Alternatively, they could have been a race that was sent out like Nomad from Star Trek, one of a kind robots originally sent to prepare planets in other galaxies for long dead/lost masters given a new lease of existence thanks to the Chenjesu, then they wouldn't want to lose their legacy, or that of their old masters by being reborn as the Chmmr.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 10:15:39 pm by Elerium » Logged
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 11:56:49 pm »

I can't remember where I saw this, but I thought that the Mmrnhrm were not entirely sure what their mission actually is, and that the Mother Ark broke down before it instructed them on what their purpose was. Because of that, they were forced to make their own way and befriended the Chenjesu in the process.

I also like the idea of the Mother Ark being one of many. The idea of the Mmrnhrm as advance colonization or terrforming robots makes a lot more sense if Mother Arks are mass produced and sent to points of interest.It also opens up the possibility of seeing both Chmmr and Mmrnhrm in the same time period, as well as different groups of Mmrnhrm with variations in appearance, weapons and ship designs, and even attitudes toward other races.

However, the idea of the Mmrnhrm being evil or having nefarious plans never really sat well with me. I chafed at the idea when it was broached in SCnot3 (even though the Daktaklakpak made it up, it still bothered me), and I'm no happier with it now. While I realize that things are not always what they seem in the SC universe, the Mmrnhrm never gave any indication that they had nefarious plans of any sort, and it seems like a twisting of their character to suggest it now that the only known group of them are gone (even though they never really got much character development to begin with).
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 12:20:43 am »

I can't remember where I saw this, but I thought that the Mmrnhrm were not entirely sure what their mission actually is, and that the Mother Ark broke down before it instructed them on what their purpose was. Because of that, they were forced to make their own way and befriended the Chenjesu in the process.

I think the source for that (mis)conception is Commander Hays again. I'm pretty sure he speculated that the Ark stopped working because it broke down, and people took it from there to believe that the Mmrnmhrm are also unsure what their mission is.
But it's pretty clear that the Mmrnmhrm do know what their mission is, or at least know a part of it, because they acted with purpose after being created (building ships and colonizing worls).
As for the Ark breaking down – that's Hay's idea.
I find it more likely that it was suppose to stop working, then that it broke down and the Mrn lack the ability to fix it.

However, the idea of the Mmrnhrm being evil or having nefarious plans never really sat well with me. I chafed at the idea when it was broached in SCnot3 (even though the Daktaklakpak made it up, it still bothered me), and I'm no happier with it now. While I realize that things are not always what they seem in the SC universe, the Mmrnhrm never gave any indication that they had nefarious plans of any sort, and it seems like a twisting of their character to suggest it now that the only known group of them are gone (even though they never really got much character development to begin with).

Actually the Daks claimed that the Chenjesu were evil creatures created by the Eternal Ones, and that their mission was to unite with the most advanced race around, which the Dak claimed were the Precursor created Mrn.
That idea was ludicrous even in SCnot3 (I like that name). I also really hate the idea that the Mrn were created by the Precursors. Which is also unlikely because the Precursors disappeared 200,000 years ago, and the Mrn were created about 1,000 years ago.

As for the Mrn being evil – certainly nothing indicates it. The known Mrn history (what little of it exists) shows them to be rather nice fellows.
Of course, they might really be nice fellows only they have to fulfill their mission and that might be something that ends badly for other races.

Still, that's just a crazy idea to throw. The Mrn mission is really open, it can be almost anything. However I don't think they would've kept it secret if it was Galactic Peace or a simple colonization effort.
The Mrn didn't fight over systems with anyone (even evacuated a Spathi system when the Spathi claimed that they always viewed that territory as their own), so I don't think anyone would oppose their creators race coming to settle in the Mrn system some time in the future.
IMO a mission that require secrecy is something more complicated then that.

And as I said earlier, I don't think that they would've merge with the Chenjesu if the merge was going to prevent them from completing the mission.
Also there is no indication that their creators are gone. 1,000 years is not a very long time. They might even still be on schedule, or perhaps their creators and lots of other Mrn are waiting for the ones in our sector to finally finish their part of the mission.

Could be interesting if some will come to check what's the delay…

As for having one ship class – I don't think it indicates anything as all races only have one class in SC. Heck the Mrn have the closest thing to two.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 12:54:36 am »

Quote
Heck the Mrn have the closest thing to two.
The others being now gone Androsynth .
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 10:12:48 am »

The Mmrnmhrm plays a major role in my (now old) Star Control story.

I never quite liked the fighter plane aesthetics of their ships, it seems unbecoming of a 'Dalek' type robot. I do like how the Mmrnmhrm themselves look though, and I think they deserve a bit more meat on the bone.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 02:06:41 pm »

Perhaps the Ark was a prototype and broke down do to an error not so far from a normal bluescreen  Grin.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 02:03:07 am »

Interesting read Arne. I like how you played the Mrn's robotic-ness, as they must fulfill programmed missions without completly understanding them.
I'm not too fond of having the Mycon part of the same system, or the hints that the Precursors made the Mrn.
The Precursors made enough stuff, I always preffered having some other alien race create the Mrn.
Also, I think the Ur-quan would be more impressed with Mrn technology if they were created by the Precursors. Smiley
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 04:07:18 am »

UAF - the mycon ARE artifitially made creatures , so they ARE a part of some system . Having TWO DIFFERENT "systems" in the same space is less likely than having one , so I kind of lean towards Arne's way . I saw no major holes in the setup the races behave just as they should in my opinion as well under the circumstances .  The biggest thing that contradicts my view of the canon is the breaking of the Chmmr part . I always thought the Chmmr unification process was writing the Mrnmhrm code over  or embed into Chenjesu physiology so the breaking in my view is not likely . I'd incline more to takeover of the code over the hybrid . This actually doesn't contradict the rest of the story , especially with the later Chenjesu and Mrnmhrm separated colony .
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 01:40:37 pm »

But it's not clear how the merge worked, or if it's even finished properly. On the comm image the metal bits are separate, and what's depicted there can be some kind of head honcho and not a typical Chmmr.

The Ur-Quan may not know who created the Mmrnmhrm because they haven't observed their ark behavior before. Whomever made the Mmrnmhrm was probably pretty competent. I think of it a bit like Order 66. A piece of dormant code which was more protected than the rest, and the Chenjesu missed it because they were rushed.

I think the break up is necessary as it eventually disarms the otherwise too powerful Chmmr, and creates tension / balance again.

I'm thinking the Mycon could've had a rather inane purpose initially, but they were left to their own devices and things escalated.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 06:42:22 pm »

Races in the SC universe tend to be focused.
The Mycon are biological constructs, the Mrn are purely unorganic, so there's a good chance they were not created by the same race.
Also, the Mycon seem to be much older. I'm too lazy to seek the quote but one of them mentions that he has memoeries from 50,000 years ago IIRC. At any case it was several thousends years ago - much older then the Mrn (The Ark arrived about 1,000 years ago).

So all in all I still believe the two races are not of the same origin.
Also, please remind me, we think the Mycon are not natural because of something the Umgah said, right?
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 06:57:22 pm »

Races in the SC universe tend to be focused.
The Mycon are biological constructs, the Mrn are purely unorganic, so there's a good chance they were not created by the same race.
Also, the Mycon seem to be much older. I'm too lazy to seek the quote but one of them mentions that he has memoeries from 50,000 years ago IIRC. At any case it was several thousends years ago - much older then the Mrn (The Ark arrived about 1,000 years ago).

That the Ark arrived in our Quadrant around 1000 years ago doesn't tell us much though. It may have been travelling for a very long time before that and we don't know anything about its origin. Or if there are loads of arks, this might be one of the newer, constructed by older arks further off. Those may in turn be much older.
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