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Author Topic: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm  (Read 8155 times)
UAF
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2009, 07:18:05 pm »

Yes, but 50,000 years older?
It's my personal impression, but I think the Mycon are much older then the Mrn.
I'd give the Mrn (and their creators) up to 10,000 years.

And there is the biological constructs / unorganic constructs difference too, which is just as important.
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Alvarin
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2009, 10:57:28 pm »

UAF - couple of thousand years ago we watched dying coals in the cave instead of browsing the internet .
I mean the creators of the "system" could've started with biological bots and when their technology created good enough AI switched to unorganic . Still simpler than two systems in the same place .
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2009, 12:03:10 am »

Doesn't fit with the way the SC universe seems to work, IMO.
Races tends to focus.

Besides, one constructed race 50,000 years ago (at the very least, migth be much more) and another 1,000 years ago from a different origin doesn't sound so far fetched to me. It's not like they arrived at the same time, or anything even close to that.

Actually, constructed races aren't that rare in the SC universe if you think about it.
The Androsynth are another one. And possibly the Humans and or the Syreen are too..
Oh, and the Evil Ones were probably created by the Umgah.
Kzer-za and Kohr-ah are sort off constructed as well.
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Arne
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2009, 10:15:32 am »

I can understand the focus argument when it comes to the Ur-Quan who may be quite conservative. Also, young races like humans haven't had time to experiment much. Even so, they managed to build the Androsynth. The Precursors however were left alone (?) to experiment for many thousands of years. If they built one race they might as well have built several. And their 'focus' in my story would not be having built a race, their focus would've been 'The System'. The constructed races are a side effect of that. Also, their focus could have been to experiment and by compulsion they had to build one race out of each material (mammalian, fungoid, robotic, etc), perhaps to minimize the vulnerability of the system.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 10:23:59 am by Arne » Logged
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2009, 11:59:35 am »

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying it is impossible or a really bad idea or something.
Only that IMO, thr Mrn and Mycon are of different origin, and I think it is very unlikely that the Mrn were made by the Precursors.

While I can see the Mycon as a Precursor leftover that stopped working right over the years (although I'm not so sure about that either, I got the impression that the computer on Unzervult was rather intelligent, and it worked fine. So they seem to be better craftsman then creating Mycon that go faulty and start destroying life teeming planets) - I really really don't see the Mrn as a Precursor creation.

The Mrn are too "young".
Whoever built them had advance enough technology to impress the Ur-quan, but nothing close to the Precursor's level.
As for their purpose, I think that their secrecy suggests that it's not as benevolent as preserving life in the universe.
It's probably not summoning the Orz, because the Arilou would probably stop them if that was the case. But some kind of private enterprise that will advance their creator's interest seems likely. Build a network of StarGates, I don't know, something grand!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 06:09:13 pm by UAF » Logged
Arne
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2009, 05:49:29 pm »

The precursor computer needed more than a decade of work though, and it had probably been shut down for a long time. The Mmrnmhrm on the other hand may have been left running for long periods of time, and computers start getting weird if they're left on for too long.

But in my story neither is the case, at least not to any larger degree.

Small batches of Mmrnmhrm are built every now and then (like 1000 years ago) to keep their numbers up. They are a specialized system, a tool, so they're not meant to show off superfluous fancy advanced technology and attract attention. Although they are capable of quickly reproducing and defending themselves against complete annihilation if need be, they weren't made to conquer the galaxy. Their task is to build the arks on a specific signal.

The Mmrnmhrm were probably not aware of their important and highly advanced dormant code themselves. Whomever built them made sure they only got the minimum of what they needed in terms of information and technology, perhaps for security purposes. Simply put, the Mmrnmhrm were a way to hide things in plain sight.

The Mmrnmhrm lived a rather empty and meaningless existence, so perhaps the merge with the Chenjesu seemed appealing eventually. In my story, it obviously didn't put the advanced dormant code at risk.


Edit: This setup might also explain why only the Mmrnmhrm are left functioning. If someone tried to destroy the system, they might have overlooked the modest Mmrnmhrm. The Xrrrrrr (responsible for the combat) would have been easier to spot. Although, in my story I think I say that the system was abandoned and just wasn't meant to be left running unmaintained for such a long time.
 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 06:10:47 pm by Arne » Logged
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2009, 03:36:49 am »

This computer that I'm on has been on for months, and it's not acting weirdly. Tongue

You would think that a more advanced species would be able to have a computer that can stay on indefinitely.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2009, 01:26:32 am »

My thoughts would be that the Mrnmhrm are the future equivalent of SkyNet, they are what is left of an advanced civilization that used robotics to bring a means to an end.
The race that which created them has long since died (could have been the Precursors) and left them one final objective to complete, which of course only the Mrn and the original race knows.

Now I can also speculate that the Mrnmhrm are future robotics built by the Humans that went back in time to help save humanity from the Ur-Quan and their objective will never be complete until the human race is "safe".

Is there any backstory to them in any of the SC manuals?
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2009, 01:16:10 am »

Only what I said in the first post.
The Mother Ark arrived here about 1,000 years ago and begun building Mrn until it stopped.
They have a mission but they won't tell what it is.
The Ur-quan are mildly impressed with their tech level (which rule out Precursor origin IMO, even if you somehow ignore the fact that the Precursors disappeared 200,000 years ago, and the Mother Ark arrived to this sector only 1,000 years ago).


The Mrn story is therefore open for almost anything. Which is perhaps a bit of deterrent for people who prefer to build upon existing material.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2009, 02:57:44 am »

Which makes me wonder why they would integrate themselves with the Chenjesu. If they have a purpose, maybe there is a plot point, to some how "take control" of the combined Chenjesu/Mmrnmhrm consciousness and carry out their original plans? Sounds ominous but I like ominous.
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2009, 09:05:47 pm »

I don't see what's wrong with the idea that the Precursors created the Mrnrnmhrm. Sure, they disappeared 20,000 years(?) ago, but the disappearance was of the "went somewhere else" type rather than the "became extinct" type. It's perfectly conceivable that they may be still alive somewhere else in the galaxy (or in some other galaxy, or even in a QuasiSpace-like place).

Quote from: UAF
Actually, constructed races aren't that rare in the SC universe if you think about it.
The Androsynth are another one. And possibly the Humans and or the Syreen are too..
Oh, and the Evil Ones were probably created by the Umgah.
Kzer-za and Kohr-ah are sort off constructed as well.
Apart from the Evil Ones, those aren't constructed races. Rather, they are modifications of existing races. The only intelligent constructed races are the Mrnrnmhrm, Chenjesu(?), and Mycon.
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2009, 11:12:26 pm »

I don't see what's wrong with the idea that the Precursors created the Mrnrnmhrm. Sure, they disappeared 20,000 years(?) ago, but the disappearance was of the "went somewhere else" type rather than the "became extinct" type. It's perfectly conceivable that they may be still alive somewhere else in the galaxy (or in some other galaxy, or even in a QuasiSpace-like place).

The Precursors disappeared 300,000 years ago (or 200,000, but I'm pretty sure its 300,000).
At any case that's MUCH more then 1,000.
Also, that's not my main gripe with the idea of the Mrn being Precursor creations.
It's more of a case of "wow, yey, that's original. MORE precursor leftovers". That's especially true after SCnot3, in which EVERYTHING was made by the Precursors.
Lets just have some original things around, PLEASE. Smiley

Apart from the Evil Ones, those aren't constructed races. Rather, they are modifications of existing races. The only intelligent constructed races are the Mrnrnmhrm, Chenjesu(?), and Mycon.

You say Potato, I say Potato Smiley
None of them are natural in any case (natural - created without intervention by intelligent beings).
Also there is absolutly nothing that hints that the Chenjesu are constructed.

P.S - you can add the Chmmr to the list of un-natural races, I forgot them earlier.
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2009, 11:43:39 pm »

I was certain I remembered hearing a theory that the Chenjesu are constructed, and upon checking the wiki I found it fairly quickly.

Quote from: Chenjesu article
Their rare physiology, advanced sentience and peculiar evolutionary path leads some to speculate that they are the product of an ancient, peaceful culture. An alternate explanation is that they are mostly software, interacting with their environment through some kind of field manipulation mechanism.

And the source for that is apparently an IRC chat with Fred Ford and/or Paul Reich III:
Quote
   <_Stilgar> <zenir> Q: how did the chmmr/taalo evolve.. especially to sentients?
    <Fwiffo> Adaptation and evolution require the ability to change in response to the environment. The Taalo and Chenjesu must either be the product of a previous culture, or they must be mostly software with some kind of field [manipulation] ability.

So while it's true there's no in-game indication of it, there is evidence from the creator that they may be constructed.




As for the Precursors thing... the Precursors are the only ancient advance race that we know of who could have created the Mmrnmhrm. It's quite possible that there's another advanced race out there, but since we don't know about it we're more likely to suggest it was the Precursors.



EDIT: And yes, I was off by an order of magnitude with the Precursors: they lived between about 300,000 and 250,000 years before the events of SC2.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 12:47:03 am by CelticMinstrel » Logged
Arne
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2009, 01:46:34 am »

It seems like those are my words (about the Chenjesu), although I didn't edit the wiki. Anyways, not canon, it was just a theory which I developed. Edit: No, wait, it seems 'Fwiffo' actually said that. Then it's some kind of... theory convergence at work.

I've already addressed the time discrepancy for the Mrnrnmhrm in my story, so it's not a problem. And SC3 didn't happen so guilt by association doesn't work.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 01:49:55 am by Arne » Logged
CelticMinstrel
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Re: Don't forget the Mmrnmhrm
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2009, 01:48:48 am »

No, I think it was based on Fred/Paul's words. "Fwiffo" is apparently both of them on IRC.
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