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Author Topic: Evolution of math in the USA  (Read 8824 times)
Alvarin
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2009, 08:07:28 am »

Cheesy !!
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Resh Aleph
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2009, 12:54:07 pm »

I've never seen l/km anywhere, and km/l and its non-SI equivalent a lot of places.

I was under the impression it was pretty standard in Europe. Someone (i.e. Luki) ought to research this.
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Lukipela
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2009, 03:33:06 pm »

Ok fair enough, perhaps I mistook some of your statements. Perhaps you could explain what you meant by "I don't think the metric units are inherently superior in themselves in any way."

The "within themseleves" makes no sense to me. What are you referring to exactly?

To me you've already made it clear you felt metric was superior (which I agree by the way and for the same reasons) But the to "make things clear "statement seems an empathetic gesture to Draxas at best.

To me this is like the racist/phobic guy at work who talks about an ethnic/social minority and adds the obligatory "not that I have anything against (blank)". Likewise you seem to be saying not that I have anything against the english system.

I dunno, that is how it honestly struck me and I meant no disrespect or offense.


Hey, don't worry. I suppose I may not have been clear enough, so I'll try to straighten it out. To begin with, I do believe that the metric system, or what I'd call "metric" for short, is better than the English one. This for the simple reason that conversions, scaling and arithmetic is easier in a base 10 system than in a base 12 one. I don't think that base 12 is horrifyingly difficult and I didn't have any trouble (well, much trouble anyhow) using it when I lived in Ireland. But I do think that as a system, it isn't as good as metric. So you've gotten me that far.

On the other hand, I don't think that the metric units in themselves are somehow superior to the English units. This is what maybe wasn't as clear. I don't think that a kilometre is a super logical and superior measurement to a mile. As Draxas and others have brought forth through the thread, your perception of unit usefulness depends on where you've grown up. I think it's handy to have the centimetre, which is smaller than the inch. Draxas thinks it is too small and precise to be very useful. We're both right, because we're both used to our own unit.

So what I'm saying this, the metric system is better, because it connects the units in a more straightforward way. It's more usable. But the metric units aren't necessarily superior, as they depend on what you're used to. The size of a degree Celcius isn't more logical than the size of a degree Farenheit, mpg isn't a worse measurement than l/100 km and so forth.

Does that clear things up?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 09:43:29 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Alvarin
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #78 on: August 28, 2009, 08:47:33 pm »

Pointless info - kelvin and celcius degree size is the same one . K=C+272 .
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Lukipela
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #79 on: August 28, 2009, 09:42:52 pm »

Pointless info - kelvin and celcius degree size is the same one . K=C+272 .

Whoops, I meant Farenheit of course. I'll edit that.
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #80 on: August 28, 2009, 11:57:29 pm »


On the other hand, I don't think that the metric units in themselves are somehow superior to the English units. This is what maybe wasn't as clear. I don't think that a kilometre is a super logical and superior measurement to a mile.


..and that is what brought (in hind sight) my knit-picky post on a beer fuled whim. I could have been a little more concise .

Anyway, could anyone really think that a kilometre is a super logical and superior measurement to a mile without considering the very things you say are superior? There are no grounds to base it on. It seems to me that we can only base a measurement system's worth by things like practicality, ease of conversion, scalability, the very things you (and I agree) claim make metric superior. Once you take those things away, what is left to compare the two units of measure?

Is the word "Inch" superior to "centimeter" because it uses less letters? Anyway ,that was my silly point.

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As Draxas and others have brought forth through the thread, your perception of unit usefulness depends on where you've grown up. I think it's handy to have the centimetre, which is smaller than the inch. Draxas thinks it is too small and precise to be very useful. We're both right, because we're both used to our own unit.

Completely agree. I'm so used to feet, inches and fractions of an inch I can guess lengths to within an inch on a fairly regular basis.

Quote
So what I'm saying this, the metric system is better, because it connects the units in a more straightforward way. It's more usable. But the metric units aren't necessarily superior, as they depend on what you're used to. The size of a degree Celcius isn't more logical than the size of a degree Farenheit, mpg isn't a worse measurement than l/100 km and so forth.

Does that clear things up?

Yes, and thanx for the response. I agree that the metric system is better and it's ok to say Metric is superior period, because it is. That's why the world is adopting it and if I remember incorrectly, even the ancient egyptians used it to build the payramids! Wink
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Lukipela
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2009, 09:34:45 am »

Anyway, could anyone really think that a kilometre is a super logical and superior measurement to a mile without considering the very things you say are superior?

Oh yes. Every subject has its own fanatics. That's why I wanted to point out that I'm not a gung-ho metric extremist.
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #82 on: September 01, 2009, 11:50:07 pm »

Anyway, could anyone really think that a kilometre is a super logical and superior measurement to a mile without considering the very things you say are superior?

Oh yes. Every subject has its own fanatics. That's why I wanted to point out that I'm not a gung-ho metric extremist.

So I take it you won't make it to the international, metric world domination rally in Madrid this year? I understand that this year Bjork is to be a headliner . Wink

Right on man, you can't be too careful with political correctness in this day and age. Smiley
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2009, 01:04:33 am »

I don't have any arguments to add to the discussion, but I just want to pop in an saying that I feel tremendously sorry for anyone who doesn't use the metric system in daily life.

Here are some flowers to cheer you up.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 01:09:26 am by Angelfish » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2009, 09:26:37 pm »

For those who might possibly care, it turns out that the Swedes do use hectograms. A lot. Dunno why really. But since I know they are 100 grammes or 0,1 kg it's still pretty easy to follow.

What's worse is that they seem to use only Swedish miles, no kilometres. Stupid failed empire.
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2009, 06:23:19 am »

What's worse is that they seem to use only Swedish miles, no kilometres.
Luckily, this is mostly unofficial; road signs and such are in km. Amusingly, the Swedish mile was 10 688 m until 1889, when the Metric system was introduced and the mile redefined as 10 km.

Perhaps US resistance to the metric system would be less if they could use Metric equivalents of familiar units, such as a "Metric mile" of 1.5 km and a "Metric foot" of 0.3 m (giving 1 "mile" = 5000 "feet").
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #86 on: October 16, 2009, 09:51:17 am »

What's worse is that they seem to use only Swedish miles, no kilometres.
Luckily, this is mostly unofficial; road signs and such are in km. Amusingly, the Swedish mile was 10 688 m until 1889, when the Metric system was introduced and the mile redefined as 10 km.

Perhaps US resistance to the metric system would be less if they could use Metric equivalents of familiar units, such as a "Metric mile" of 1.5 km and a "Metric foot" of 0.3 m (giving 1 "mile" = 5000 "feet").

Just multiply by 8 and divide by 5, isn't that easy enough for the US kids?
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Death 999
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #87 on: October 16, 2009, 05:15:41 pm »

Luckily, this is mostly unofficial; road signs and such are in km. Amusingly, the Swedish mile was 10 688 m until 1889, when the Metric system was introduced and the mile redefined as 10 km.
Wow, Swedish miles are long.
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RTyp06
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #88 on: October 16, 2009, 11:39:17 pm »


Just multiply by 8 and divide by 5, isn't that easy enough for the US kids?

Most U.S. kids can't even find Mexico on the map let alone posses the attention span required to solve a "complex mathematical equation" such as that. Blatant facetiousness aside, give them an algebraic equation such as 8 + 8 / 4 * x = 10 and ask them to solve for x and their head would probably explode.
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Lukipela
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Re: Evolution of math in the USA
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2009, 08:53:41 pm »

Luckily, this is mostly unofficial; road signs and such are in km. Amusingly, the Swedish mile was 10 688 m until 1889, when the Metric system was introduced and the mile redefined as 10 km.

yeah, but unofficially entrenched. I've yet to hear a Swedish person say that something is xx km away, they all just use miles. And it affects their thinking too, they don't even seem to use signposts for distances under 20 miles or whatever. Kind of weird fro someone who is used to seeing 30 km signposts.
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