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Mormont
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Excruciators and mind control
« on: August 22, 2009, 06:56:49 pm »

Here's something I've wondered about for awhile and figured I'd start a topic on...

Do the Ur-quan still have their excruciators? Perhaps they have them available if needed but don't use them most of the time? I wouldn't expect them to just throw them away, but then if they had them they could have used them against the Dynarri. Or perhaps the Umgah genetic modifications strengthened the neo-Dnyarri so they wouldn't work anyway.

Also, I would expect the Ur-quan to be especially worried about the Syreen because they have mind control, even if it's limited compared to the Dnyarri. Actually, it does seem this way in the SC1 manual. In SC2, however, the Ur-quan are actually pretty lenient toward the Syreen (relatively speaking), Talana doesn't even particularly want to fight them. And I don't think they'd thought of the Ur-quan backstory yet in SC1.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 06:58:30 pm by Mormont » Logged
meep-eep
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Re: Excruciators and mind control
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2009, 08:36:10 pm »

The excruciators were brain implants, so I don't expect that they'd just be discarded after use (at least not before its wearer has died). But the Ur-Quan slave revolt took place about 15000 before the events of SC2, and the Ur-Quan don't live that long:
Quote
We sense... something... something ancient... a sickly smell... a chilling wind.
My ancestors scream from within their chambers in my mind
but I cannot understand their words.
This feeling... a memory? It sickens us, and for the first time in our lives
for the first time in generations
We fear.
So I doubt that they'd still be wearing them, though it's possible that they are implanted in young Ur-Quan, but not activated.
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Re: Excruciators and mind control
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2009, 09:56:08 pm »

Do the Ur-quan still have their excruciators? Perhaps they have them available if needed but don't use them most of the time? I wouldn't expect them to just throw them away, but then if they had them they could have used them against the Dynarri. Or perhaps the Umgah genetic modifications strengthened the neo-Dnyarri so they wouldn't work anyway.

My idea is that the UQ would indeed have been safe if they used their excruciators (which they likely still have)... however, when the Sa-Matra was attacked, the Neo-Dnyarri's psychic attack was unexpected and thus they were influenced before they could activate them.

So, in order to be protected, the UQ need to activate their excruciators before they are mind-controlled. Once they get controlled, it's too late... they have no free will with which to activate them then.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 09:57:53 pm by SuddenDeath » Logged
Alvarin
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Re: Excruciators and mind control
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 09:58:32 pm »

Quote
...it's possible that they are implanted in young Ur-Quan, but not activated.
I can't see how the Umgah could pass such an opportunity to give their masters a bad headache Smiley
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Re: Excruciators and mind control
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 09:25:36 pm »

Do the Ur-quan still have their excruciators? Perhaps they have them available if needed but don't use them most of the time? I wouldn't expect them to just throw them away, but then if they had them they could have used them against the Dynarri. Or perhaps the Umgah genetic modifications strengthened the neo-Dnyarri so they wouldn't work anyway.

My idea is that the UQ would indeed have been safe if they used their excruciators (which they likely still have)... however, when the Sa-Matra was attacked, the Neo-Dnyarri's psychic attack was unexpected and thus they were influenced before they could activate them.

So, in order to be protected, the UQ need to activate their excruciators before they are mind-controlled. Once they get controlled, it's too late... they have no free will with which to activate them then.

Explains the Sa-Matra guard, although I think the Dynarri just didn't have enough power to afflict those, I kind of imagined the Dynarri just using his psychic powers to do a compulsive "scare them off" rather than control them as he lacks the power to do so (otherwise he'd compel the fleet to his own whims).
The Ur-Quan obviously get scared after having the Dynarri invade their minds and flee although the Sa-Matra guards stay behind, maybe out of spite, using an excruciator or something which wasn't made clear.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 09:32:37 pm by Elerium » Logged
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Re: Excruciators and mind control
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2009, 10:42:21 am »

Do the Ur-quan still have their excruciators? Perhaps they have them available if needed but don't use them most of the time? I wouldn't expect them to just throw them away, but then if they had them they could have used them against the Dynarri. Or perhaps the Umgah genetic modifications strengthened the neo-Dnyarri so they wouldn't work anyway.

My idea is that the UQ would indeed have been safe if they used their excruciators (which they likely still have)... however, when the Sa-Matra was attacked, the Neo-Dnyarri's psychic attack was unexpected and thus they were influenced before they could activate them.

So, in order to be protected, the UQ need to activate their excruciators before they are mind-controlled. Once they get controlled, it's too late... they have no free will with which to activate them then.

Explains the Sa-Matra guard, although I think the Dynarri just didn't have enough power to afflict those, I kind of imagined the Dynarri just using his psychic powers to do a compulsive "scare them off" rather than control them as he lacks the power to do so (otherwise he'd compel the fleet to his own whims).
The Ur-Quan obviously get scared after having the Dynarri invade their minds and flee although the Sa-Matra guards stay behind, maybe out of spite, using an excruciator or something which wasn't made clear.

Yes, the ones around Sa-Matra were just confused (rather than mind-controlled), because the Neo-Dnyarri's powers were severely limited by the Taalo shield. As for the remaining Sa-Matra guard, they were either:
1) individuals with high mental strength, which enabled them to resist the Dnyarri's weakened compulsion, or
2) the Neo-Dnyarri over-exerted itself, so compelling every Ur-Quan was beyond its capabilities.

Either way, it would give those 6 still lucid guards enough time to realize what's going on and activate their excruciators.
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Alvarin
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Re: Excruciators and mind control
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 11:24:18 am »

In any case of the guard's resistance there is a hole in the backstory - upon realizing the compultion , I am sure they would immediately destroy the talking pets on board ... But they don't and you can still chat with the guards via it .
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Re: Excruciators and mind control
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2009, 02:08:23 pm »

In any case of the guard's resistance there is a hole in the backstory - upon realizing the compultion , I am sure they would immediately destroy the talking pets on board ... But they don't and you can still chat with the guards via it .

And they seemed pretty cordial when chatting with them, not really in any pain. The Kzer-Za calmly stating the price of siding with the Neo-Dynarri the annihilation of humanity and the Kohr-Ah really just acting as they usually do. Most likely the Neo-Dynarri overexerted itself and the confused guards had enough time to piece two and two together knowing its limited capabilities.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 02:10:12 pm by Elerium » Logged
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