Ur-Quan and Syreen

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Ur-Quan and Syreen

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Alvarin
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Ur-Quan and Syreen
« on: January 22, 2010, 01:50:01 pm »

One of things in the story I still don't understand is the survival of Syreen.
Their ability of mind control, even so small compared to the Dnyarri, should have lit all the red lights to the Ur-Quan.
It amazes me how the Syreen weren't eradicated and even were given the coice to become thralls - to serve on 'Quan's ships and have mobility...
Why do you think Ur-Quans did that ?


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Angelfish
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 02:15:56 pm »

The Ur-Quans did that because the creators were inadequate in writing some parts of the backstory.


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Alvarin
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 03:25:49 pm »

Being "canon" means it is as it is, so every "loophole" has to have explanation. This thread is just for that - discussion to find possible reason, even if in fact it was writer's oversight.

My only idea so far is Syreen's mental powers are not affecting the Ur-Quans at all, so they were concidered no danger to them.
Drawback of this idea is that Syreen could have mind-controlled other thralls to rebel and weaken the Hierarchy from within.


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Lukipela
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 03:49:47 pm »

Well, it is possible that the Syreen simply have a really weak latent ability of some sort that do not affect others without significant enhancement by whatever the Penetrator contains. Of course, then there's the question of why they saved those ships...


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Angelfish
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2010, 07:27:50 pm »

Quote from: Alvarin on January 22, 2010, 03:25:49 pm

Being "canon" means it is as it is, so every "loophole" has to have explanation. This thread is just for that - discussion to find possible reason, even if in fact it was writer's oversight.

The problem is that such 'possible reasons' are often so horribly ridiculous, that while they are logical and possible and explain the issue at hand, they also destroy the magic and mystery that surrounds Star Control. It's like telling kids that santa doesn't exist.


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Tiberian
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2010, 08:33:48 pm »

The Syreen's mental powers are nothing compared to those of the Dnyarri. The Syreen could not control the whole Ur-Quan species. That's why the Ur-Quan don't see the Syreen as a special threat - which they aren't.


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Draxas
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2010, 12:42:47 am »

Quote from: Lukipela on January 22, 2010, 03:49:47 pm

I seem to recall seeing an explanation similar to this in the SC1 manual. Of course, I don't actually have a copy of said document for reference, but that's where I put my vote nonetheless.


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Dakart
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 11:32:17 am »

The way I see it the Syreen either lullied the Ur-quan with all their ability to convince them to keep them alive or hide their skills completly not to be detected. Either way the psychic amplificatons on their shps would have given them away.


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Mugz the Sane
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 12:38:57 pm »

Perhaps it was the presence of the psychic amplifiers that made the Kzer-Za think the Syreen psych abilities were not enough of a threat to warrant extermination. Remember that the Dnyarri psych powers were potent enough to be used natively - i.e. without any form of amplification. Also bear in mind that the neo-Dnyarri has psych powers potent enough to actually penetrate the Taalo shield enough to persuade the Captain to talk about something else.

Also remember that the Doctrinal Conflict started in the first place because the Kzer-Za attitude was 'Enslave, yes. Never destroy' while the Kohr-Ah attitude was to just kill anything that wasn't Ur-Quan of either type. (The Kzer-Za seemed like the saner of the two - but maybe that's just me.)

As for why the Syreen Penetrator fleet wasn't destroyed after their subjugation... according to Talana the 'Ur-Quan never throw anything away'. Then again, that could have just been thrown in there to explain why they were stored in the vault. So I wonder where all the Broodhomes, X-forms, and other slave-shielded race ships were stashed...


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Simon K
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2010, 01:43:32 pm »

The Syreen were given the option to function as battle thralls as a pure formality. The Ur-Quan Lord who negotiated their surrender was well aware of the Syreen history and psychology (Ur-Quan are many things, but stupid or ignorant aren't among them), and knew that if they were offered a planet sufficiently like old Syra, they'd accept it without a fuss --- even with gratitude --- and that the Syreen were basically a peaceful people who wouldn't want to fight, especially against their former allies.

As for why they weren't completely destroyed? Well, what if slave shields block psionic powers?


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Death 999
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 04:37:06 pm »

I think that the Syreen fleet might have been the only one taken substantially intact.


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Draxas
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 06:55:04 pm »

Quote from: Simon K on January 27, 2010, 01:43:32 pm

As for why they weren't completely destroyed? Well, what if slave shields block psionic powers?

The the 'Quans would panic every time they had to resupply the starbase, since they would have to get new crew from the surface. There must be more to it than that.

Quote from: Death 999 on January 29, 2010, 04:37:06 pm

I think that the Syreen fleet might have been the only one taken substantially intact.

This is true. All of the other Alliance members either fought to the last, surrendered and became battle thralls, or just plain ran to where they weren't likely to be found.


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Mugz the Sane
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2010, 10:19:23 am »

Yeah, by the time the Kzer-Za got to them, the Syreen had no allies and were in no shape to fight. Their only option was to surrender.

And, to be fair, their surrendering actually improved their lot by quite a margin - they got a planet similar to the one that had been destroyed for them, and they could live (more or less) in peace. Perhaps the Kzer-Za realised this and felt that they were no threat. Hence, no extermination.


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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2010, 05:20:50 pm »

True; the Dnyarri were malicious in addition to possessing strong psychic powers, while the Syreen only have incredibly weak psychic powers and only want to find a home.


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Alvarin
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Re: Ur-Quan and Syreen
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2010, 10:13:25 pm »

While all true, the Ur-Quan of both doctrines seek permanent solutions. Once this sector of space would have been "dealt with" the Kzer-Za would have moved on, leaving the Syreen to potentially evolve higher psychic skills and in possible remote future develop malice and appetite for conquest, endangering the Ur-Quans of the future.


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