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Havanaradio
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Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« on: January 08, 2010, 08:02:24 pm »

VIBRANT COMMUNITY YOU HAVE HERE!
Somehow I missed this game back in the 90s, but its shaping up to be as good as XCOM, makes me wonder what else i missed...  I have played for about 5 hours, allied with the ZFP, killed a shofixti (oops), and established trade with the capitalist pigdog Melnorme. I bought a lot of info and up to just before the gun tracking mod in improvements. I have an Ion cannon(the 2nd gun you get) with 3 Generators (please forgive improper nomenclature but im not going to flip furiously through the wiki every time i forget the exact name of the somo-flange or whatever), 4 Crew quarters', 2 tanks, full thrusters/jets, 2 cruisers, and ample trunk space. SO -

1 - the Cruiser is totally worthless right? I cant even beat the probes with it, which i take to be the standard of spaceworthiness.

2 - i seem to be a rockstar in the exploration and zoological parts of the game, but when it comes to the probes and UrQuan in combat i am facing what i consider to be steep losses. (these are with the mothership, I have given up on the cruiser) - probly 25% of the time the probe ends up on top of me and kills me. I feel like a retard when this happens. 50 % of the time i get away from it, but suffer maybe 40 casualties due to its dodginess. The rest of the time i hit it 3 times right away and blow it up. Is this normal? should i be using the only other ship that was available to me, the eluder? Mine died a cowards death early on. These things seem ridiculously hard to me is what i'm saying.

3 - Against the UrQuan i usually lose 50. Again, how am i placing on the old learning curve?

4 - I am being super thorough in exploration (not harvesting from 6+ hazards nor harvesting common or corrosive ores), but the going is kinda slow. Is this the kinda game where such a strategy is ultimately futile, but necessary for you to know what to skip the second time through? I hate that.

5 - AIM - I can compete pretty well with the cpu on medium in melee mode, but im having aiming problems a lot. I think im an above average arcader, but is the cpu just always gonna out-arcade me? also, im using a gravis pad, is keyboard better? other options?

6 - EVASION - The success I have had seems to come from me running away form the enemy and letting him run out of energy by barely missing me. Then i can miss 5 times and hit once and its worth it cos he wont slaughter me. I feel the presence of the Dark Side when I string out cpu opponents until the AI breaks down... should I?

7 - Rank in importance - *Finding Allies - *Melnorme Goodies - *defeating neighboring thrall species - ****GOOOOOOLLD!**** - *Questing for far off relics and wormholes and things the Melnorme tell you about. - *other.

thats it for now, i may edit. thanks for the time - PLEASE DONT TOTALLY SPOIL THE PLOT! - i know it seems like im asking for it, but cmon.
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 08:15:05 pm »

Ion Cannon is the original, weak gun. The improved is the blaster.

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the Cruiser is totally worthless right? I cant even beat the probes with it, which i take to be the standard of spaceworthiness.

The probe is actually quite tough. The Cruiser is useful in several important battles, just not that one. The Eluder is far better against it, but you've gone and blown up Fwiffo... so, yeah, it's going to be tricky for a time.

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Is this the kinda game where such a strategy is ultimately futile, but necessary for you to know what to skip the second time through? I hate that.

It's that kind of game, if you don't have the map that comes with the game. Have you seen an out-of-game map that looks like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/paperclypse/27873431/

That should be enough hints to get you started in a big way.

On abusing the AI - vs probes, it feels legitimate for me. Against others, eh.

7 - GOOOOLD... to sufficiency. Then, questing for relics / finding allies (often related concepts), melnorme goodies, other, defeating thrall species.
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Cedric6014
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 08:48:02 pm »

Question Havanaradio:
Did the Eluder die with you controlling it?
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 09:03:22 pm »

1 - the Cruiser is totally worthless right? I cant even beat the probes with it, which i take to be the standard of spaceworthiness.

Each ship has its strengths and its weaknesses. Also use the planet's gravity to your advantage. Don't hold down the thrust button when you're going right past it; it will actually slow you down.

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2 - i seem to be a rockstar in the exploration and zoological parts of the game, but when it comes to the probes and UrQuan in combat i am facing what i consider to be steep losses. (these are with the mothership, I have given up on the cruiser) - probly 25% of the time the probe ends up on top of me and kills me. I feel like a retard when this happens. 50 % of the time i get away from it, but suffer maybe 40 casualties due to its dodginess. The rest of the time i hit it 3 times right away and blow it up. Is this normal? should i be using the only other ship that was available to me, the eluder? Mine died a cowards death early on. These things seem ridiculously hard to me is what i'm saying.

3 - Against the UrQuan i usually lose 50. Again, how am i placing on the old learning curve?

While you can get a lot done with the escort ships with some practice, I personally prefer to stay out of enemy territory until I've got my flagship sufficiently pimped up. And remember that you can outrun everything in HyperSpace once you've got your thrusters maxed.

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4 - I am being super thorough in exploration (not harvesting from 6+ hazards nor harvesting common or corrosive ores), but the going is kinda slow. Is this the kinda game where such a strategy is ultimately futile, but necessary for you to know what to skip the second time through? I hate that.

There are 500 star systems. You're not going to be able to investigate all of them, nor do you have to. Don't be afraid to miss stuff, and you'll end up having a lot more fun, even if it will mean that you may not make it the first time around.

There actually is a time limit. That may not sound like fun, but the feeling of urgency will intensify the game experience.

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5 - AIM - I can compete pretty well with the cpu on medium in melee mode, but im having aiming problems a lot. I think im an above average arcader, but is the cpu just always gonna out-arcade me? also, im using a gravis pad, is keyboard better? other options?

It will get better with practice. Game pad or keyboard is a matter of personal taste. Just make sure that if you use the keyboard, you choose keys which are registered when pressed simultaneously.

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6 - EVASION - The success I have had seems to come from me running away form the enemy and letting him run out of energy by barely missing me. Then i can miss 5 times and hit once and its worth it cos he wont slaughter me. I feel the presence of the Dark Side when I string out cpu opponents until the AI breaks down... should I?

Each ship requires its own tactics. Also, don't forget about the planet.

Quote
7 - Rank in importance - *Finding Allies - *Melnorme Goodies - *defeating neighboring thrall species - ****GOOOOOOLLD!**** - *Questing for far off relics and wormholes and things the Melnorme tell you about. - *other.

Finding allies is what drives the plot forward, but gathering minerals and bio to improve your flagship will make that easier. And the earlier you do that, the more use you'll get out of them.

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I killed Fwippo with my poor piloting decisions!
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2010, 01:06:41 pm »

I was flying when fwippo blew up.  Mainly b/c I coulndt tell which way he was facing. A targetting reticle about an inch out from the ship would rule, a la Crusader No Remorse.  In general, thanks for the replies. As I said - !!!VIBRANT COMMUNITY!!! - I look forward to impending atomization at the hands of you fine folks once I get a grip on the combat part of the game and wade into the IRC scene. BIG thanks for the map tip, just printed a high res one out for the scrapbook.

Peace - Havanaradio
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2010, 07:50:20 pm »

Presumably, if you managed to get Fwiffo on board, then he told you where the Spathi homeword is. If you go there you might get some more eluder vessels
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 04:42:18 pm »

Always glad to see new faces around here, especially folks who are playing the game for the first time. A lot of us wish we could unlearn all of the intricacies we know about UQM, just so we could have that experience again, but I digress.

1 - the Cruiser is totally worthless right? I cant even beat the probes with it, which i take to be the standard of spaceworthiness.

No ship in the game is totally worthless (though of course, some are worse than others). The Cruiser, as mentioned, will serve you well against certain key opponents, but the Probes are not among those. The Probe is actually one of the tougher (or at least more annoying) opponents, and while you can make quite a bit of RU from the scarp once you get good at killing them, it's probably safer just to max out your thrusters and outrun them. Just be aware that they're persistent enough that they won't stop chasing you until you've completely lost them on your radar.

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2 - i seem to be a rockstar in the exploration and zoological parts of the game, but when it comes to the probes and UrQuan in combat i am facing what i consider to be steep losses. (these are with the mothership, I have given up on the cruiser) - probly 25% of the time the probe ends up on top of me and kills me. I feel like a retard when this happens. 50 % of the time i get away from it, but suffer maybe 40 casualties due to its dodginess. The rest of the time i hit it 3 times right away and blow it up. Is this normal? should i be using the only other ship that was available to me, the eluder? Mine died a cowards death early on. These things seem ridiculously hard to me is what i'm saying.

Fwiffo's Eluder was an excellent choice against Probes, which means it's a damn shame that you lost it. Perhaps if you ask nicely, the Spathi will let you have more?

That being said, there are a few other escorts that are effective against the Probes, but some of them can be tricky to acquire. For now, the flagship may be your best choice. Once you really kit it out for war (or possibly even before, if you're having lots of trouble), you'll probably want another blaster in the second slot, and a second ATS system somewhere on board. That will send out triple the firepower you have now, with a good chance of all 3 shots connecting with your target. Few opponents can stand up to that for long (which is good, because it will suck down your power like nobody's business as well, so be careful you don't get caught in a bad spot).

As for fighting the Ur-Quan... Well, your best bet is to avoid them unless you have a good reason to actually tangle with them. That being said, the Cruiser isn't a great choice, but may be able to do well if you can keep away from that huge gun; the point defense system ensures that Ur-Quan captains won't send their fighters after you. Other options are superior, of course, but you'll need to discover which on your own.

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3 - Against the UrQuan i usually lose 50. Again, how am i placing on the old learning curve?

Not terribly for your first time out, on a flagship designed for hauling cargo rather than combat. Suffice to say you can do better, but as I said, your safest option is probably to avoid the Ur-Quan altogether.

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4 - I am being super thorough in exploration (not harvesting from 6+ hazards nor harvesting common or corrosive ores), but the going is kinda slow. Is this the kinda game where such a strategy is ultimately futile, but necessary for you to know what to skip the second time through? I hate that.

Generally speaking, unless you're first starting out, you'll probably want to explore with a destination in mind, rather than simply exploring for minerals to mine. As mentioned above, the game does have a time limit, though it should be more than sufficient to allow you to finish the game as long as you don't wile it away. Your best bet is to choose an area of space you want to explore, and do your mining on the way there, ine the region while searching for your main goal, and on the way back. That way, you'll not only be turning a profit, you'll also be making real progress toward your goals.

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5 - AIM - I can compete pretty well with the cpu on medium in melee mode, but im having aiming problems a lot. I think im an above average arcader, but is the cpu just always gonna out-arcade me? also, im using a gravis pad, is keyboard better? other options?

When starting out (much like in many other games), the CPU can be a daunting opponent. However, once you've been playing a while, you'll start to notice particular quirks of the AI that can be exploited rather easily. It's that learning process that will make you a better player (at least until you try flying against other human beings, anyway). On the flip side, you are correct that the CPU can out-arcade even the fastest set of human reflexes. However, it's also not very smart, and its weaknesses will more than negate any superhuman piloting skills it may have.

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6 - EVASION - The success I have had seems to come from me running away form the enemy and letting him run out of energy by barely missing me. Then i can miss 5 times and hit once and its worth it cos he wont slaughter me. I feel the presence of the Dark Side when I string out cpu opponents until the AI breaks down... should I?

Against the CPU, anything goes, even the worst flavors of cheese. Just be aware that other humans may not be as willing to tolerate strategies like these (or worse yet, have good counters to them). Like I said above, the CPU has reflexes that put even the fastest-fingered arcaders to shame. So finding ways to exploit their weaknesses is fair game.

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7 - Rank in importance - *Finding Allies - *Melnorme Goodies - *defeating neighboring thrall species - ****GOOOOOOLLD!**** - *Questing for far off relics and wormholes and things the Melnorme tell you about. - *other.

That's a tricky list to put numbers to, simply because your priorities tend to change as the game progresses. Resource gathering, for example, is of paramount importance until you have enough to safely explore a reasonable distance from the starbase, but then becomes secondary to everything else. That being said, you seem to have gotten a decent grip on the early game, and are able to go wherever you want at this point, but haven't really started contacting too many allies yet. Try this:

1: Finding allies
2: Questing for relics / following tips from the Melnorme (realistically, 1 and 2 are pretty similar, since they relate pretty closely much of the time)
3: Defeating Thralls (honestly, it's better to stay out of their way unless you have a reason you would need to interact with them. You have the potential for vast destructive power in your fleet, but you still only can have a handful of ships. You'll never make a dent in an opposing army of millions on your own just by shooting at them yourself)

While following those objectives, you can check the systems you encounter for resources to mine or sources of Melnorme credits. However, at no time should either be your sole priority now that you have the ability to wander far from home.

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thats it for now, i may edit. thanks for the time - PLEASE DONT TOTALLY SPOIL THE PLOT! - i know it seems like im asking for it, but cmon.

I tried to avoid spoilers, and I think I mostly succeeded on anything important. Have fun exploring the galaxy, and welcome to the forum!
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Havanaradio
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 10:26:22 am »

 Grin - This game is the beezneez. Thanks again for the primer guys, saved me a couple aborted games I bet. Ill be back after I save the universe. I must say though, NOT ONE HITCHHIKERS GUIDE JOKE YET??? Theres gotta be one coming up... the petunias Ive seen on some planets do not count, as they were bowl-less.
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 05:40:07 pm »

The bowl broke. As did the whale.
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2010, 06:16:49 pm »

HeartOfGold would be too long to fit, but you could name the captain Arthur...
And there is a race I king of associate with the Vogons, two actualy, one by appearance the other by behaviour.
No HHGTTG jokes, though.
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 04:54:08 pm »

its awesome to see someone new to the game experience pretty much the same things i did the first time Smiley

Run thru the game til you win or lose a couple times H, before you decide to go looking at any strategies, walkthrus or spoilers, youll have more fun discovering things that way.

As youve already discovered, the melnorme will upgrade your ship and landers, and you can customize it at the starbase.  Like others here have said, once youve got a decent handle on combat or resource gathering with your  flagship- thats when you want to start following all the leads youve gotten by talking to the starbase commander, or the melnorme, or other races.    As you follow those leads, they will take you to different areas of the quadrant, do your mining or battling  or exploring on the way  to and from your story destinations.

Save the game often, especially when in hostile territory.

Always watch your fuel, dropping landers will eat it up fast if youre not careful.

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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 05:57:02 pm »

Grin - This game is the beezneez. Thanks again for the primer guys, saved me a couple aborted games I bet. Ill be back after I save the universe. I must say though, NOT ONE HITCHHIKERS GUIDE JOKE YET??? Theres gotta be one coming up... the petunias Ive seen on some planets do not count, as they were bowl-less.
Would the timeline even allow a HHGttG joke in SC2?
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 09:04:46 pm »

Would the timeline even allow a HHGttG joke in SC2?
It could have easilly fit into Thraddash backstory of previous cultures.
Pkunk have had plenty of opportunities too.
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2010, 05:08:32 pm »

...I meant the real-life timeline, actually. Smiley
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Re: Please Advise (spoilers if you are a noob like me)
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2010, 07:18:33 pm »

Hitchhiker's was originally a radio play in 1978 (thanks, Google!) and the books were published between '79 and '92.  So yeah, there could've been hitchhiker references in SC2, although I don't remember any off the top of my head.
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