The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 08, 2022, 06:11:39 am
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  General UQM Discussion (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  Help with combat
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Help with combat  (Read 3148 times)
Jonnan001
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4



View Profile
Help with combat
« on: June 06, 2010, 08:46:50 am »

My apologies - after hearing about this game for a long time, I wanted to try it. By and large I like it (It reminds me a lot of Starflight, another game I enjoyed), right until I deal with combat.

The long and the short is even after the wiki, I'm not getting how to do combat. I've only been able to afford thruster and speed, and one re-firing gun, and every Sylandro probe I run across completely wipes me out. I certainly can't get anywhere in the game because of them, the only ships I have are even less useful than the main vessel.

Basically, the combat area is so small I can't disengage or get any breathing space, do any tactical maneuvering, engage the enemy on anything less then the AI's terms, and of course the instant there is any possibility of any tactical advantage the enemy disengages and hits you from the other side of the screen, since (not effectively being limited the the 8 cardinal directions) it can basically always hit.

So basically the enemy can attack at will and I die. For a game that is so well thought of, I'm finding a combat system so hideous to be a real frustration.

Any assistance on how to actually manuever in this toroidal-space mess would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks - Jonnan
Logged
Data
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 76



View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2010, 11:05:34 am »

I'm no expert in this game, I'm sure other people will have better device, but some things that I did when I first started:
Don't use the main ship at the beginning, it isn't very good IMO and if you sell the guns you can get more thrusters to get everywhere faster -> meaning less probe encounters.
On Pluto there is something that can make your fleet a bit more competitive very early in the game.
For other thigns, use the wiki for advice and practice in Super Melee. I don't have any good advice about maneuvering because it basically boils down to - you go where the enemy is, you go where the enemy isn't, you avoid the planet, you go towards the planet to execute a gravity whip for speed.
Logged

Sig fixed at Shivers request.
Lukipela
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3619


The Ancient One


View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2010, 11:09:13 am »

This is more for PvP, but the fundamentals are the same I suppose.

http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/User:Shiver/PvP_Guide#Fundamentals

Also practice in SuperMelee and invest in better thrusters and turning jets fro your main ship so you can run away.
Logged

What's up doc?
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3866


We did. You did. Yes we can. No.


View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2010, 07:57:54 pm »

I've only been able to afford thruster and speed, and one re-firing gun,
Scrap the gun, use it on thrusters. Then combat becomes a very minor part of the game.
Logged
Jonnan001
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4



View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2010, 02:55:02 am »

I'm maxed out on thrusters (Both types) already - that's a large portion of what makes this so annoying. I don't see any way to effectively maneuver in the small space provided - almost as soon as I'm out of range in one direction, I'm in range in another.

I might be able to master this as a twitch game, and if it was even vaguely realistic I might even be inclined to do so, but learning a twitch game about how to beat an opponent that doesn't miss on a toroidal map approximately the size of a broom closet is . . . neither fun nor realistic.

It may simply be I'm better suited to playing Nethack.

Jonnan
Logged
Novus
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1938


Fot or not?


View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2010, 08:07:02 am »

With maximum thrusters you can pretty much, as Death 999 said, fly around anyone you don't want to fight or talk to in HyperSpace. That said, the Slylandro Probe is one of the most annoying enemies in the game precisely because it is ridiculously manoeuvrable and can pretty much dictate where and when you fight it; much of the time you are stuck reacting to it. This is actually kind of fun if you like fast action games; if not, you might want to consider giving the computer control over battles.
Logged

RTFM = Read the fine manual.
RTTFAQ = Read the Ur-Quan Masters Technical FAQ.
onpon4
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 709


Sharing is good.


View Profile WWW
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2010, 12:26:31 pm »

With maximum thrusters you can pretty much, as Death 999 said, fly around anyone you don't want to fight or talk to in HyperSpace. That said, the Slylandro Probe is one of the most annoying enemies in the game precisely because it is ridiculously manoeuvrable and can pretty much dictate where and when you fight it; much of the time you are stuck reacting to it. This is actually kind of fun if you like fast action games; if not, you might want to consider giving the computer control over battles.

Maximum thrusters makes you faster than the Slylandro in Hyperspace. I find it pretty easy to avoid them, really.
Logged

Steve-O
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 127



View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2010, 04:18:01 pm »

I'm maxed out on thrusters (Both types) already - that's a large portion of what makes this so annoying. I don't see any way to effectively maneuver in the small space provided - almost as soon as I'm out of range in one direction, I'm in range in another.

If you've already maxed your thrusters, then you could focus on gunning it up until you have spread fire and rear-firing guns, which tends to make combat with your mothership much easier.  Personally I never bring the Vindicator to battle until I have full armaments (and point defense), and once I do I rarely use anything else.

As far as avoiding combat, I usually set the ship on autopilot to my destination and then keep an eye on the minimap to see approaching encounters.  It lets you spot them from further away and with full thrusters you shouldn't have too much trouble maneouvering around them from there.

If the probes are your main problem (and I agree they are annoying as !@(*$^#!@#&($^) you might also consider dealing with them once and for all.  I don't want to give you spoilers if you don't want them, but talk to the captain and maybe the Melnorme to see if you can't track down the source of the probes.
Logged
storyyeller
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 101



View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2010, 06:08:06 pm »

Point defence lasers are useless.

Once you've got enough guns and tracking units, you can one shot pretty much anything, so it doesn't matter.
Logged
Draxas
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1044



View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2010, 06:25:43 pm »

Also an option if you're REALLY disinclined toward dealing with probes in combat i to simply use your escape drive. It wastes quite a bit of fuel, sure, but you may prefer that over losing crew / the game.
Logged
Lukipela
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3619


The Ancient One


View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2010, 07:41:28 pm »

I'm maxed out on thrusters (Both types) already - that's a large portion of what makes this so annoying. I don't see any way to effectively maneuver in the small space provided - almost as soon as I'm out of range in one direction, I'm in range in another.

Stop trying to use a rock on a paper bag. Wait until you have ships that are the equivalent of scissors.
Logged

What's up doc?
Jonnan001
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4



View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2010, 10:05:35 pm »

So, what I'm getting off this is -

There's one ship type that shows up immediately. You find it in systems and hyperspace immediately. I've found three planets with life forms that you can get to (but not escape from) and possibly get enough info to trade with the Melnorme (I've found others, but all weather 6 or tectonics 8 planets) for something that would actually help.

This ship type is the one you should under no circumstance engage at this tech level, because it will kill you?

What . . . fun . . .  Roll Eyes
Logged
Tiberian
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 335



View Profile WWW
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2010, 10:20:29 pm »

You should think about it like this:

It is evident that currently you are very weak. What would you do in real life if you were weak and you'd see an enemy?

Answer: Avoid combat.

But if you still run into the enemy while you are weak, you have two choices:

1) Run away.
2) Fight for your life.

If you have maximum thrusters, you can always run away. If you want to fight, you will win if you know what you are doing. Even an Earthling Cruiser can beat a Slylandro Probe (human vs AI only)  in competent hands. But the easier way is to get your hands on a Spathi Eluder and fight off the Slylandros with that. You can get a Spathi ship before the first encounter with the Slylandro if you investigate Sol adequately.

Also, if you have trouble with some other ship than Slylandro Probe, you are most likely in enemy territory. Don't fly into enemy territory before you can deal with it.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 10:22:12 pm by Tiberian » Logged

Author of Star Control novelizations Groombridge Log and Eternal Doctrine. http://www.tommisalminenbooks.com
Lukipela
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3619


The Ancient One


View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2010, 10:21:04 pm »

So, what I'm getting off this is -

There's one ship type that shows up immediately. You find it in systems and hyperspace immediately. I've found three planets with life forms that you can get to (but not escape from) and possibly get enough info to trade with the Melnorme (I've found others, but all weather 6 or tectonics 8 planets) for something that would actually help.

This ship type is the one you should under no circumstance engage at this tech level, because it will kill you?

What . . . fun . . .  Roll Eyes

Not quite. It's more like this. From very early on in the game, there are three ship types available to you. There is one enemy that shows up very early. One of the ship types is essentially useless against it in combat. One can be utilized and consistently win but requires fair piloting skills. And your basic upgraded main ship can beat it with much trouble and heavy losses, but upgrading it gives you another strategy; not engaging in said battles.

You're playing an adventure game. That does not man you have to fight every enemy that comes your way. You don't need to grind enemies to collect XP. Killing a thousand probes does not give you "Supersonic power punch" or some other power to make the game easier. It just gives you RU's that you can earn in other places as well. You are advised at StarBase to start off slowly, build an alliance and so forth. With thrusters and turning jets you can easily avoid the most challenging enemy in the early game while you find a better way of combating it.

I mean, it sounds like you want a game where enemies slowly gain in power as you improve your ship and gain allies. Once you've levelled a few times, stronger enemies should warp in, keeping the challenge even. But Star Control isn't like that. Space is a tough place where wimps eat plasma and die. When you start out, there are a lot of bad guys who will easily walk all over you, especially if you don't know much about the ships at your disposal. You spend the first half of the game barely staying alive, gaining allies and resources and learning how to fly the strange ships. Then during the second half, you're a powerhouse that can't be stopped, but it doesn't matter because you now know that brute force isn't going to save you, you need to out-think the enemy.

Essentially, you're a lone human Captain in a hostile universe. Use your wit and the information given to you at Starbase to find allies, don't try to power through a slave empire that already defeated an alliance of the sectors most powerful races. Or deranged drones that can run circles around you in the field of combat.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 10:33:13 pm by Lukipela » Logged

What's up doc?
Jonnan001
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4



View Profile
Re: Help with combat
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2010, 01:48:07 am »

Mmmm.

Lone 'PC Race here' 'PC Description here' in a hostile 'milieu here' against 'great evil here' is hardly an unexplored trope.  Saying 'you are incompetent to use fwifo's ship in combat against the sylandro probes - there are specific tactics  A B and C that work' is a legitimate criticism of my playstyle. Or that I just don't like a combat minigame that is a twitchgame.

That's actually kinda what I'd expected - I'm missing something fundamental about the tactics. Wouldn't be the first time.

However, that . . . doesn't appear to be the answer I'm receiving - This seems to be the 'expected' behavior, with explanations ranging from 'don't use a rock versus paper' to 'you're a lone human Captain in a hostile universe'  - well, apologies but being an adventure game doesn't make A balance issue a 'feature', and if this *isn't* a failing in my mastering tactics (annoying but possible), and this *isn't* a twitchgame I have to either master or leave (Annoying because I don't like twitchgames and will probably quit rather than messing with) . . . then this is an adventure game with severe balance issues.  Nethack drops the 1st level character on . . . the 1st level of the dungeon, with equipment just barely sufficient to make it to DL 2.  Saying you shouldn't expect an adventure game to *not* simply drop your level 1 character into level 10, naked, seem to ignore most of my experience in adventure games.

But, at the end of the day, some people obviously like it this way, I'm just not one of them. Time to use that "Satisfaction guaranteed or double your money back" warranty!

Jonnan
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!