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Author Topic: Star Maps for Star Control I and II  (Read 7158 times)
alien_fan
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Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« on: July 25, 2010, 02:31:18 am »

Hello,

I was looking around on this forum and read some talk about star maps for Star Control II.
I found a very nice map for it, "sc2finalmap.png" which I can view on Mac OS's "Preview" program.
However, in order to read it, I have to zoom in quite a bit.  That's not such a problem but it would be
nice if I had a hard copy where I can check off stars I have visited so I don't go the same place twice.

The aliens are fairly easy to remember, but the stars are not so easy.  I suppose I could l just write out
a list of each star's name that I visit.  It would be nice, though, if I just had a really big hard copy that's
easy to read and check visited places.  Actually several copies would be nice.

Is there a way to buy it from some where?  I would need a color printer and maybe photo paper to make
a print out and then I wouldn't know how to blow it up so everything's legible.

Also, is there a good map for Star Control I?  I was thinking of downloading Star Control 3.  It's really
not about the price, because if I pay to download Star Control I, I can get Star Control 3 also as long
as it's the same day.  However, from the horror stories I've been hearing, I think I'll just go with I & II.

Thanks!

BYE.
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Alvarin
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2010, 05:35:38 am »

Star control 1 maps are 3D and different for each scenario, so I don't think you can get a printed map for that.
For UQM there is also a list of all stars, that you could use, but that contains spoilers.
About SC3 - it's not that bad if you don't have your expectations hight and manage to dodge event sequence breaks.


EDIT: links
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/List_of_constellations - spoler free - good for finding where you are pointed to by aliens.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 06:11:42 am by Alvarin » Logged
Novus
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2010, 12:01:04 pm »

I was looking around on this forum and read some talk about star maps for Star Control II.
I found a very nice map for it, "sc2finalmap.png" which I can view on Mac OS's "Preview" program.
However, in order to read it, I have to zoom in quite a bit.  That's not such a problem but it would be
nice if I had a hard copy where I can check off stars I have visited so I don't go the same place twice.
That reminds me; by Luki's request, I started work on an SVG backend for the starmap generator a few weeks ago. There are a few minor issues to iron out, but I think I could post it soon. You could use it to easily generate a map adapted for cheap printing (e.g. with a white background instead of black).

Quote
Also, is there a good map for Star Control I?  I was thinking of downloading Star Control 3.  It's really
not about the price, because if I pay to download Star Control I, I can get Star Control 3 also as long
as it's the same day.  However, from the horror stories I've been hearing, I think I'll just go with I & II.
Who's selling the Star Control series for download?
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alien_fan
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2010, 07:29:00 pm »

Hello,

I would be interested in the map with a white background.

"Who is selling Star Control?"
You may wish to Google "abandonware", MyAbandonware.com I think and "Abandonware + Star Control" or
"Abandonware + something else".

http://<illegal download site>/star_control_1.html
http://<illegal download site>/star_control_3.html

The games are actually free.  You're paying for the service for their maintaining the download site.

What is SVG?

My concern with printing is that you'd might want something bigger than 8 1/2" x 11"?

I've played the game so much I'm not worried about spoilers (SC2 I mean)

What do you mean, 3D maps for SC 1?
Maybe I will try downloading SC 3 after all?

Thank you so much for all your help!

BYE.



Moderator edit: Removed links to illegal download site.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 12:51:36 pm by meep-eep » Logged
Alvarin
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2010, 09:09:31 pm »

Star Control 1 had not a flat surface map, but rotating "galaxy" of stars.
It would be very hard to accurately represent the spheroid cluster for printing...
In addition, there were so little srats in each scenario, that I don't think it is at all necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX0M2Ftf6ho
That's SC1 review. The starmap is at about 3:30 onward.
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Dragon
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 10:28:57 am »

Also with regards to SC1 and it's star maps.  Unfortunately TfB no longer have the original source code to SC1 which includes the rather nifty random star position and link generator.  I took a stab at reverse engineering it a couple of years ago but didn't try very hard.  Zeracles has since provided an algorithm that generates SC1 style starmaps, complete with connections and clusters (Yay!).  As Alvarin said it'd be very hard to print the 3D representation and each map is only be valid for one scenario (and the games are fairly short).
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 11:27:10 am »

You may wish to Google "abandonware", MyAbandonware.com I think and "Abandonware + Star Control" or
"Abandonware + something else".
The games are actually free.  You're paying for the service for their maintaining the download site.
I see. I was hoping you'd found a legitimate reseller, not someone who's charging for the same unlicensed copy you can get for free elsewhere (see your own search results).

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What is SVG?
Scalable Vector Graphics.

Quote
My concern with printing is that you'd might want something bigger than 8 1/2" x 11"?
One of the reasons for the map generator is to make it easy to produce maps adapted to different paper sizes.

Quote
What do you mean, 3D maps for SC 1?
Maybe I will try downloading SC 3 after all?
Both SC1 and SC3 use 3D maps; in the game, they are shown as a rotating mass of stars.
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2010, 10:19:11 pm »

Not big enough to suit you, but this has a white background, and might even be useful for figuring out optimal routes Grin



The SC2 stars joined by a pseudo-delaunay tessellation, to emulate SC1's links for Dragon's awesome remake. I can provide the postscript original to anyone who wants it. Also, this morning I went most of the way toward implementing a simplified version of Death 999's idea for doing something similar.

Maybe you'd also find this page useful.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 10:25:40 pm by Zeracles » Logged

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alien_fan
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 02:47:14 am »

Hello,

I was not aware that the copy I found was illegal?  Thanks for telling me.
I thought the whole point behind "abandonware" is that they don't care anymore about trying to sell/maintain it?

Is there a legal way to get "Star Control 1" and/or "Star Control 3"?
I'm more interested in "Star Control 1" from what I've been hearing.

BYE.
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Dragon
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2010, 11:41:47 am »

I thought the whole point behind "abandonware" is that they don't care anymore about trying to sell/maintain it?
Unfortunately "abandonware" isn't a legal term.  A game can be officially 'abandoned' if the copyright holder puts it in the public domain but that very seldom happens.  More often the copyright holder ceases to pursue copyright infringements on old software that has no commercial interest.  Occasionally it's uncertain who the copyright holder actually is - as companies are bought and sold then who actually holds the copyright can become confused.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 11:43:31 am by Dragon » Logged
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2010, 11:42:42 am »

I was not aware that the copy I found was illegal?  Thanks for telling me.
I thought the whole point behind "abandonware" is that they don't care anymore about trying to sell/maintain it?
Unlike trademarks, copyrights cannot be lost by not exercising them (in any copyright system I'm aware of). In other words, it's still infringement even if nobody sells it.

While you can make a reasonable claim that the copyright holder is not hurt by abandonware distribution (as a counterargument, consider that the copyright holder may reintroduce a game, as Nintendo have done with their Virtual Console), that still doesn't make it legal.

The site you linked to actually doesn't distribute the games themselves; it just charges you to tell you where you can download them ("Additionally, we don't store any software on our server. "; main page). Technically, I suppose this means the maintainers of the site aren't actually committing copyright infringement themselves, just helping others do so.

Quote
Is there a legal way to get "Star Control 1" and/or "Star Control 3"?
Resale of an existing legal copy is almost always legal. However, that means someone has to be willing to part with their copy. I was hoping you'd found a better solution.
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alien_fan
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 05:46:11 am »

Hello,

Copyright means that only the creator can copy it, whether or not it is for sale.  So far as re-releasing things, I think of TV Land on
cable television.  They air shows that originally aired a long time ago.  There are people who have never seen such television
and maybe people who don't mind watching certain shows again.  Folks in TV Land shows still get rewards.  Also, the internet
allows for more storage so people can see other things.  There aren't many new shows on TV and the ones that are on TV
have an increasing web presence.  The larger number of channels has given more choices to people.  PBS is really
expanding, I hear.

Well, there are only so many new TV shows, so many old TV shows.  Renting, buying and checking out DVDs from the store and from the library makes it cheap to watch a lot of movies.  After seeing a lot of them on TV or in a DVD player, the movies run out, just
like the new & old TV shows.  After all, there is only enough time in prime time anyway.  There seems to be more fluff on cable TV and people are gradually spending more time in front of a computer than a TV, especially with newer computers that you can watch
TV programs On Demand (when you want to see it).

I like to read hard copy newspapers and get used to waiting a certain day or time for a new show being released on screens everywhere.

Anyway, what they say about copyright is that the laws really haven't changed much over the years, it's just easier with all
the electronics capable of easily sharting great deals of information.

Sorry I don't know anybody who has "Star Control 1" or "Star Control 3", never mind the part about would they be willing to sell it/them
to me.  I am disappointed that the link I found is an illegal download.  I found them using Google.

Does anyone know how I can get a licensed copy of either or both games?

Thanks.
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onpon4
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2010, 09:32:53 pm »

Hello,

Copyright means that only the creator can copy it, whether or not it is for sale.  So far as re-releasing things, I think of TV Land on
cable television.  They air shows that originally aired a long time ago.  There are people who have never seen such television
and maybe people who don't mind watching certain shows again.  Folks in TV Land shows still get rewards.  Also, the internet
allows for more storage so people can see other things.  There aren't many new shows on TV and the ones that are on TV
have an increasing web presence.  The larger number of channels has given more choices to people.  PBS is really
expanding, I hear.

Well, there are only so many new TV shows, so many old TV shows.  Renting, buying and checking out DVDs from the store and from the library makes it cheap to watch a lot of movies.  After seeing a lot of them on TV or in a DVD player, the movies run out, just
like the new & old TV shows.  After all, there is only enough time in prime time anyway.  There seems to be more fluff on cable TV and people are gradually spending more time in front of a computer than a TV, especially with newer computers that you can watch
TV programs On Demand (when you want to see it).

I like to read hard copy newspapers and get used to waiting a certain day or time for a new show being released on screens everywhere.

Anyway, what they say about copyright is that the laws really haven't changed much over the years, it's just easier with all
the electronics capable of easily sharting great deals of information.

Sorry I don't know anybody who has "Star Control 1" or "Star Control 3", never mind the part about would they be willing to sell it/them
to me.  I am disappointed that the link I found is an illegal download.  I found them using Google.

Does anyone know how I can get a licensed copy of either or both games?

Thanks.

You can look on Amazon and eBay, but it won't be cheap and it probably will take some work to get it to run on your machine.
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alien_fan
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2010, 09:47:54 pm »

Hello,


How expensive do you think Star Control 1 and/or Star Control 3 would be off eBay or Amazon.com?  With the kind of backwards compatibility XP lacks, maybe I should get a 286, but it would be hard to find and I don't have a lot of room in my apartment for another computer  Sad

Maybe DOS Box would work but I fear I lack the ability of getting it to work.

Thanks anyway.

BYE.
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Re: Star Maps for Star Control I and II
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 10:50:47 pm »

Hello,


How expensive do you think Star Control 1 and/or Star Control 3 would be off eBay or Amazon.com?  With the kind of backwards compatibility XP lacks, maybe I should get a 286, but it would be hard to find and I don't have a lot of room in my apartment for another computer  Sad

Maybe DOS Box would work but I fear I lack the ability of getting it to work.

Thanks anyway.

BYE.

Just do a search on the sites for Star Control. If someone's selling it, you'll find it. Just make sure you're looking at the PC version and not the Genesis version (unless you happen to have a Genesis).
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