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Author Topic: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?  (Read 9872 times)
Angelfish
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2010, 08:21:47 am »

Good idea, let's get back to the topic. That is the reason I started this thread after all...

Oh really? Those are your pillars of your position? This is too easy!
1. A monthly fee is just a subscription model, and doesn't represent how a Star Control MMO has to be. For example Guild wars is entirely free to play for as long as you want.
2. You won't have to. Most MMO's have great soloing possibilities and something for everyone who doesn't like griefers etc. EVE online has space where you can't be attacked, WoW has PVE and Roleplaying servers, etc. Alternatively you could try playing on european servers since the problems you've had proably appeared on american servers, and I haven't experienced them to that extent.
3. Well, with those 2 pillars down you might end up liking the game after all.

I do not have quite as much conviction as Angelfish or Draxas, but my position is leaning against producing yet another MMO. Both sides have presented excellent arguments. I will likewise share three pillars of my own. In the interest of not repeating myself, I will respond to yours.

1. Guild Wars is a relatively big player in the industry. It is already well-known and thus profits from a larger player base. A sequel to Star Control will not have this advantage. Even if this idea makes its way off the ground (so to speak), funding still has to come from somewhere.

Ofcourse funding has to come from somewhere. When no monthly fee is applied you have to buy the initial game at a higher price. The subscription model has nothing to do with an MMO really.

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2. I have played EVE online, and technically there is no "space where you can't be attacked". A determined aggressor can still blow you to bits if they do it quickly enough that the cops cannot stop them in time. This is not to say that makes it or any other MMO bad, but every online game has its share of griefers and drama, regardless of the form it takes. The reason I left was really because I grew tired of the boring point-and-click control scheme, but that is another story.

Eve online got boring after a while, yes. But still, if you want there are ways to prevent a lot of griefing and drama. WoW has done this in such a way that everyone can play the game they want, be it solo, PVP, raiding, roleplaying or whatever Wink.

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3. This point has no material in and of itself. You have made your overconfidence clear.

Thanks.
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Draxas
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2010, 04:17:44 pm »

Oh really? Those are your pillars of your position? This is too easy!

Only because you didn't think about it too hard. Wink

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1. A monthly fee is just a subscription model, and doesn't represent how a Star Control MMO has to be. For example Guild wars is entirely free to play for as long as you want.

I only need one word to destroy this argument completely and utterly beyond recognition: ACTIVISION.

Elaborating on that, do you really think the company that wants to take the fun out of games, and siphon as much money away from their customers as possible, would even consider the possibility of using any other model than subsciptions? And they, of course, would be guaranteed to publish any title we would see come from TFB.

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2. You won't have to. Most MMO's have great soloing possibilities and something for everyone who doesn't like griefers etc. EVE online has space where you can't be attacked, WoW has PVE and Roleplaying servers, etc. Alternatively you could try playing on european servers since the problems you've had proably appeared on american servers, and I haven't experienced them to that extent.

And really, all of those things makes the scourge of the Internet People nonexistent? You're never chat spammed by goldfarmers or general idiots? Nobody ever steals your loot, one way or another? Griefers don't necessarily have to kill you to make your life miserable (though that is the most effective way). And yes, there are countermeasures you can take, like turning off features or changing servers. Is it worth it to play a partially crippled game, or depending on how the game handles server changes, starting from scratch? Not in my esteem.

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3. Well, with those 2 pillars down you might end up liking the game after all.

Hmph. All 3 stand strong and tall.
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Angelfish
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2010, 04:37:09 pm »

Oh really? Those are your pillars of your position? This is too easy!

Only because you didn't think about it too hard. Wink

Quote
1. A monthly fee is just a subscription model, and doesn't represent how a Star Control MMO has to be. For example Guild wars is entirely free to play for as long as you want.

I only need one word to destroy this argument completely and utterly beyond recognition: ACTIVISION.

Elaborating on that, do you really think the company that wants to take the fun out of games, and siphon as much money away from their customers as possible, would even consider the possibility of using any other model than subsciptions? And they, of course, would be guaranteed to publish any title we would see come from TFB.

I'm sorry, I didn't know we were talking about TFB making a Star Control MMO, because frankly I never see that happening Smiley. I already ruled it out because it's bound to compete with WoW.

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2. You won't have to. Most MMO's have great soloing possibilities and something for everyone who doesn't like griefers etc. EVE online has space where you can't be attacked, WoW has PVE and Roleplaying servers, etc. Alternatively you could try playing on european servers since the problems you've had proably appeared on american servers, and I haven't experienced them to that extent.

And really, all of those things makes the scourge of the Internet People nonexistent? You're never chat spammed by goldfarmers or general idiots? Nobody ever steals your loot, one way or another? Griefers don't necessarily have to kill you to make your life miserable (though that is the most effective way). And yes, there are countermeasures you can take, like turning off features or changing servers. Is it worth it to play a partially crippled game, or depending on how the game handles server changes, starting from scratch? Not in my esteem.
[/quote]
[/quote]
What on earth are you talking about? Ofcourse I've been chat spammed sometime in WoW, but those people get banned almost immediately. Stealing loot? Yes ofcourse, in the beginning, but after that technical fixes made that impossible. I don't know how your research about MMO's came to be, but it's not all the doom and gloom that you make it appear it to be Cheesy. And how it's a crippled game when you can't be attacked by players is just a circular reasoning.

"I don't like it when players attack me!"
"Okay, we have a server for you where players can't attack you"
"But that's a crippled game!"

Cheesy
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 04:40:57 pm by Angelfish » Logged
Draxas
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2010, 05:01:05 pm »

I'm sorry, I didn't know we were talking about TFB making a Star Control MMO, because frankly I never see that happening Smiley. I already ruled it out because it's bound to compete with WoW.

Who else would make it? Legend? Tongue

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What on earth are you talking about? Ofcourse I've been chat spammed sometime in WoW, but those people get banned almost immediately. Stealing loot? Yes ofcourse, in the beginning, but after that technical fixes made that impossible. I don't know how your research about MMO's came to be, but it's not all the doom and gloom that you make it appear it to be Cheesy.

WoW is clearly ahead of the curve... sort of. How about "I thought we were bidding for loot?"

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And how it's a crippled game when you can't be attacked by players is just a circular reasoning.

"I don't like it when players attack me!"
"Okay, we have a server for you where players can't attack you"
"But that's a crippled game!"

Cheesy

That's not what I meant. I was more referring to chat spam, which most people respond to with "Well, mute your chat if you don't like it." That's hardly a solution in my eyes, and cripples what should be a major feature. Maybe WoW is ahead of the curve there too, with some sort of magic ability to filter spam, but I doubt it.

Don't even suggest muting individual users. I don't want to have to micromanage my chat window instead of playing the game, either, and there are way too many of them for it to be feasible.
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Angelfish
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2010, 08:12:54 pm »

I'm sorry, I didn't know we were talking about TFB making a Star Control MMO, because frankly I never see that happening Smiley. I already ruled it out because it's bound to compete with WoW.

Who else would make it? Legend? Tongue

Ideally: some small company, for example Stardock, who were recently interested in the rights.
TFB is more likely to make a Tony hawk or Disney/Madagascar MMO Smiley. Count Fred and Paul out for anything Star Control related.

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What on earth are you talking about? Ofcourse I've been chat spammed sometime in WoW, but those people get banned almost immediately. Stealing loot? Yes ofcourse, in the beginning, but after that technical fixes made that impossible. I don't know how your research about MMO's came to be, but it's not all the doom and gloom that you make it appear it to be Cheesy.

WoW is clearly ahead of the curve... sort of. How about "I thought we were bidding for loot?"

Loot is divided by the loot master. Bidding or rolling dice is mostly done by automated systems which work perfectly. There is much social control in WoW servers, most people whom you play with are not unknown to you, and people who screw up multiple times will get a bad reputation, and as such don't get invited to parties anymore.

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Quote
And how it's a crippled game when you can't be attacked by players is just a circular reasoning.

"I don't like it when players attack me!"
"Okay, we have a server for you where players can't attack you"
"But that's a crippled game!"

Cheesy

That's not what I meant. I was more referring to chat spam, which most people respond to with "Well, mute your chat if you don't like it." That's hardly a solution in my eyes, and cripples what should be a major feature. Maybe WoW is ahead of the curve there too, with some sort of magic ability to filter spam, but I doubt it.

Chat spam? in what aspect? You can turn off certain channels if you're not interested in certain messages (such as Looking for group channels etc), and if they get abused multiple times the game masters will ban those people from the channels. Also, playing in a guild to your liking will almost certainly diminish the need for such LFG channels, and you can play with people you know and love Smiley.

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Don't even suggest muting individual users. I don't want to have to micromanage my chat window instead of playing the game, either, and there are way too many of them for it to be feasible.
[/quote]

So are you interested in reading a chat or playing the game? Because if you're playing the game you can turn the chat windows off, and when you enter a major city you can have them turn on again. The possibilities are endless. Generally, when you're in a major city there's a lot going on on the chat channels, but when you're questing it's much quieter since not a lot of people talk on these public channels Smiley. In my experience it's really not that big of a problem. And if it became a problem I dealt with it in a way I saw fit.
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Lukipela
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2010, 08:50:08 pm »

Man Angelfish you are abusing those quote tags horribly. Trying to read through one of your replies is twice as irritating as it ought to be Wink

Anyway, quick question. From what I gather you've played a lot of WoW, but have you played a lot of MMO's as well? Just curious, since WoW is clearly your favorite if you feel that the field is otherwise pretty good as well. Or are they all so similar that there isn't much difference technically?
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Angelfish
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2010, 11:58:59 pm »

Man Angelfish you are abusing those quote tags horribly. Trying to read through one of your replies is twice as irritating as it ought to be Wink

I can't help it. If you know an easy way to do quoting correctly please do tell Smiley
Quote
Anyway, quick question. From what I gather you've played a lot of WoW, but have you played a lot of MMO's as well? Just curious, since WoW is clearly your favorite if you feel that the field is otherwise pretty good as well. Or are they all so similar that there isn't much difference technically?

I've played Lineage II for a bit, Guild Wars quite extensively, and Eve Online for a while but that got boring because the most you did was autopilot from system to system. Also I played Dungeons and Dragons online, but at the time I played it it was so horribly buggy that I quit it in anger.

Out of those previously mentioned, Guild Wars was the best. It was easy to get into and you could solo a lot aswell if no players were online.

However, WoW stands above that. It has an incredible athmosphere, humor, a friendly player base and good gameplay balance.
Ofcourse, what was the most fun was the raiding. For those not known with it, it's going inside a dungeon with 25 (previously 40) players, each with its own task (some healing, some buffing/debuffing, some tanking, some doing damage etc), and defeating various monsters, increasing with difficulty. The game is designed in such a way that it really takes a lot of practice and perhaps even getting special gear to defeat these monsters. I was part of such a raiding guild, and one of the 6 or 7 people that was leading that guild. I was also class leader for the warlocks in that guild. It meant having to deal with a lot of different people from different countries of sometimes colliding personalities, all working towards a common goal.
I quit the game in 2008 because it took up too much of my free time and life had caught up with me, even though we only raided 4 days a week outside of weekends.
Still, I personally think that it's the best game ever made. No game has ever provided me with such a big world with such a lot to do, endlessly, and such social contacts ingame, and the thrill of defeating those monsters for the first time on the server Tongue.
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2010, 02:15:20 am »

Man Angelfish you are abusing those quote tags horribly. Trying to read through one of your replies is twice as irritating as it ought to be Wink

I can't help it. If you know an easy way to do quoting correctly please do tell Smiley

Yeah, it's called using your keyboard. Roll Eyes Wink
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ziper1221
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2010, 02:15:55 am »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH7s2BYbUAo&feature=related
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2010, 09:59:53 am »

While we are on the topic of spam, are you at all familiar with the "spam-bot"? It can replicate its code and infiltrate hundreds of online games and forums. Due to its automated systems, it can instantly establish itself as a player and unleash a withering barrage of spam upon the unsuspecting innocents. Even with a small militia of dedicated moderators armed with ban-hammers, giving individual spammer bots the boot, though satisfying, does not stop more from coming.

Need I remind you we do not have Blizzard's resources to work with here?! I appreciate your wishful thinking, but this isn't the daydreaming thread.


Thanks.

You are welcome.
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Angelfish
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2010, 10:32:51 am »

While we are on the topic of spam, are you at all familiar with the "spam-bot"? It can replicate its code and infiltrate hundreds of online games and forums. Due to its automated systems, it can instantly establish itself as a player and unleash a withering barrage of spam upon the unsuspecting innocents. Even with a small militia of dedicated moderators armed with ban-hammers, giving individual spammer bots the boot, though satisfying, does not stop more from coming.

Need I remind you we do not have Blizzard's resources to work with here?! I appreciate your wishful thinking, but this isn't the daydreaming thread.

Your reasoning is flawed. We're a small board over here. But do we have a lot of spammers? nope. our moderators can perfectly handle it.
Why? Because a small board isn't as interesting as a big board to spam on Smiley.
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Draxas
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2010, 03:51:58 pm »

An MMO full of players is a different beast, since they're a live, captive audience. It's a much more inviting target.
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Angelfish
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2010, 04:01:18 pm »

An MMO full of players is a different beast, since they're a live, captive audience. It's a much more inviting target.

the more players an MMO has, the more it's attractive to spammers, but the more money it generates, the more money there is for moderators etc.
the more players an MMO has, the less it's attractive to spammers, but the less money it generates, the less money there is for moderators etc.

It evens out.
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Draxas
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2010, 04:04:34 pm »

Not really, not until you hit something WoW sized. Before then, companies are reluctant to greenlight all that extra staff, since they're not sure whether they have a lasting success or just a flash in the pan, and human resources are much more expensive than anything else in the long run. Remember, Blizzard is always the exception, not the rule.
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Angelfish
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Re: Star Control MMO: Good idea or bad?
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2010, 04:11:27 pm »

Not really, not until you hit something WoW sized. Before then, companies are reluctant to greenlight all that extra staff, since they're not sure whether they have a lasting success or just a flash in the pan, and human resources are much more expensive than anything else in the long run. Remember, Blizzard is always the exception, not the rule.

Then by your definition all other MMO's have to be full of spammers.

Eve Online, Dungeons and Dragons online, Lineage II and Guild Wars weren't full of spammers.
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