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Author Topic: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.  (Read 3662 times)
Lukipela
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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2010, 08:49:23 pm »

That is what I thought.

Keep in mind that while you've grown up with textbooks describing the oppressed people of the Soviet Union as freedom seeking oppressed victims, the guy you're talking to has grown up with textbooks describing the Soviet Union as workers paradise on earth, beset on all sides by captialist propaganda. You really think his propaganda textbooks are more accurate than your propaganda textbooks?

As a European, I know that most of the European countries under the Soviet union were not completely satisfied with the arrangement. The Baltic folks hated it, but it's not like Czechoslovakia or Eastern Germany was super happy about it either. Can't say much about the 'stans, but at least parts of Georgia don't seem too fond of modern day Russia either. I suspect love of Russians and fond rememberances of the Soviet Union it's mostly just a function of which countries are geographically closer and have a significant population percentage of ethnic Russians

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I guess I asked partly because I'm a Communist (Anarchist Communist, to be exact),

Communism as a principle is all about equality and brotherhood. The communist states we've seen have mostly been dictatorships where some people are slightly more equal than others, and where the state runs things pretty tightly. Anarchism is pretty much the opposite of any Communist state we've seen, without five year plans and whatnot. Is Anarchist Communist something like small scale Communism within a deregulated group?

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and partly because I have seen a video of Cuba which, while it was supposed to show how "horrible" Communism is, actually showed that the people of Cuba are perfectly content with their lives, probably even happy.

Well, except the ones killed or imprisoned by their government at least.
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Vasaka
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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2010, 09:33:29 pm »

I do not tell that has been written in our textbooks. I tell that I saw the eyes. I tell how I lived earlier and I live now.

If you ask: "USSR it is paradise?" - I will tell: No".
If you ask: "Russia it is paradise?" - I will tell: "Too is not present".
If you ask: "Where you would like to live?" - I will tell "Definitely in USSR!".

Despite many lacks which were in Soviet Union, it was much better than modern Russia and wild capitalism which we now have.
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Lukipela
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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2010, 09:50:32 pm »

I do not tell that has been written in our textbooks. I tell that I saw the eyes. I tell how I lived earlier and I live now.

You made a pretty broad statement on how people in the Soviet Union relate to each other. Did you actually visit most of the Soviet Union during that time and find people relating "warmly" to you? Otherwise you tell what you read.

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Despite many lacks which were in Soviet Union, it was much better than modern Russia and wild capitalism which we now have.

Yeah, the Gulags we're probably a lot better back then. On the other hand your neighbours no longer have to live in fear of being invaded and oppressed by a system responsible for the death of millions of its own citizens. So there is that.
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Vasaka
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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2010, 10:32:31 pm »

I see you at all do not know as there lived people in Soviet Union in 70-90 years.
And still you as at all do not know as in Russia people live now. Smiley

I do not consider it necessary to prove someone it. I have simply told, that I know and I see the eyes. That's all.
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onpon4
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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2010, 10:59:07 pm »

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Keep in mind that while you've grown up with textbooks describing the oppressed people of the Soviet Union as freedom seeking oppressed victims, the guy you're talking to has grown up with textbooks describing the Soviet Union as workers paradise on earth, beset on all sides by captialist propaganda. You really think his propaganda textbooks are more accurate than your propaganda textbooks?

I realize that there was propaganda from the Soviet Union as well; heck, that was one of the things I considered when I made that post. But I'm talking about happiness here, not whether it's actually a good system. Surely you know how much political and corporate bullshit there is in the US, but if I was to talk to a bunch of people here, chances are most of them would say that they're content with the government. Saying that everyone in the Soviet Union was in constant fear of death is like saying that everyone in the US is constantly struggling to battle the rich class. Sure, the problem does exist, but that doesn't stop people from being happy.

Now, you could easily argue that people in the Soviet Union were only content because of secrecy, propaganda, etc, but that doesn't make the people any less happy. In the same way, I could easily argue that people in the US are only happy because of a false hope of an "American dream" that has been instilled into their heads by the elite, but that doesn't make the people any less happy.

Communism as a principle is all about equality and brotherhood. The communist states we've seen have mostly been dictatorships where some people are slightly more equal than others, and where the state runs things pretty tightly. Anarchism is pretty much the opposite of any Communist state we've seen, without five year plans and whatnot. Is Anarchist Communist something like small scale Communism within a deregulated group?

No, Anarchist Communism is the belief that the capitalist market and private property should be abandoned in favor of common ownership of the means of production. It prefers voluntary organizations instead of greed-driven corporations and force-driven authoritarian governments.

I do not think the Soviet Union, Cuba, and North Korea are/were perfect or even close to perfect, but frankly, neither is the US.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 11:01:17 pm by onpon4 » Logged

Lukipela
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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2010, 02:34:24 pm »

I see you at all do not know as there lived people in Soviet Union in 70-90 years.
And still you as at all do not know as in Russia people live now. Smiley

I do not consider it necessary to prove someone it. I have simply told, that I know and I see the eyes. That's all.

I see you do not know anything about the Soviet Union. I have simply told what the Russians and other people from that region I work and live with tell me they lived with every day. I do not consider it necessary to prove it to you, I'm just telling onpon4 that there is more than one truth here.

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I realize that there was propaganda from the Soviet Union as well; heck, that was one of the things I considered when I made that post.

Fair enough, though it doesn't much show in your answer. It seemed like you were taking his opinions at face value as some sort of universal truth, which is the only reason I stepped into this conversation. I don't care much about your theories on happiness and contentment,  but I will say that the idea of voluntary organizations stepping up and common ownerships taking over has some serious problems in my opinion. If nothing else, it assumes that there is an endless supply of leaders and organizers ready to put in some very hard work though they may be replaced at a moments notice. Not everyone is equal in their abilities, and those abilities are both hard to find and replace even in the current system.

But if you want to debate that further we may as well continue with a new thread and not derail this one. Good luck with your project Vasaka!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 02:36:18 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2010, 03:23:05 pm »

But if you want to debate that further we may as well continue with a new thread and not derail this one. Good luck with your project Vasaka!

Alright, here's the new thread: http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4882.0
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Vasaka
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Re: Videoclips of the ships from 3DO are very necessary to me.
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2010, 09:03:49 pm »

Good luck with your project Vasaka!

Thank you. Smiley
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