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Author Topic: How the Kzer-za could have won the war  (Read 4742 times)
Grand Master Planet Eater
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How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« on: February 21, 2011, 09:44:08 pm »

I know it's against the rules for them to get their battle thralls to help, but what about reverse - engineering their technology and equipping it on their ships? They could also use the technology from fallow slave races.

Imagine a fleet of dreadnoughts that can cloak, use point - defense lasers, transform to blazer form, launch limpets and DOGIs, use Yehat shields, warp backwards, use the Syreen song (with Syreen slaves aboard, of course), regrow Mycon crew members, use the Thraddash afterburner, transform (or if that is too difficult to do with a Dreadnaught, just give it some of those long range missiles), fire B.U.T.T missiles, etc.

Even with inferior numbers, they could kick the Kohr-ah back to their homeworld easily
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Draxas
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 09:51:57 pm »

Ur-Quan arrogance would never allow them to admit that they might improve their own vessels with technology captured from a slave race. That status only extends to long dead races that carelessly leave their artifacts lying around for anyone to find.
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Wolframm
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 10:42:31 pm »

The Kzer-Za could have won that war even without such engineering projects. They could have simply called in some battle thrall fleets as reinforcements, but they fought the war on their own.
Their arrogance might not be the only reason for that. The alternative reason would be honor. They wanted that battle to be fair, because it was actually a competition for "The Great Trophy"
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JudgeYohance
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 10:50:39 pm »

Ur-Quan feel all other species are inferior. Even if another race had built superior technology, they never would use it as it would debase the purity of their race's power.  I mean they could have won the war simply by using the Sa-Matra on them too.....I mean that is how they won the firs time right?
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Draxas
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 11:00:27 pm »

I mean they could have won the war simply by using the Sa-Matra on them too.....I mean that is how they won the firs time right?

Well, that's pretty much the only reason why they are even fighting a second war, because they felt they may not have won fairly the first time by using their new super weapon that they just sort of found lying around. So what would be the point of just using it again?
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JudgeYohance
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 06:38:28 am »

Quote
Well, that's pretty much the only reason why they are even fighting a second war, because they felt they may not have won fairly the first time by using their new super weapon that they just sort of found lying around. So what would be the point of just using it again?

Not getting their ass kicked in the second war? Smiley
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Admiral Zeratul
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 07:40:39 am »

Of course, the Shofixti blowing up Delta Gorno with a significant Ur-Quan fleet in the vicinity certainly didn't help either.
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Draxas
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 04:05:37 pm »

Not getting their ass kicked in the second war? Smiley

Pride and principles are more important to the Ur-Quan than that, since they're dealing with their estranged cousins. After all, this is a battle to see who is both better and right in their choice of doctrine. Thousands of years of following said doctrine in order to confront the Kohr-Ah followed by 5 minutes of wiping out the Kohr-Ah fleets with the Sa-Matra is not only an insult to the process, but as a repeat of the end of the first doctrinal conflict, serves to prove nothing.
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Zeracles
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 03:40:28 am »

In my book they already cheated by using the Sa-Matra against the Alliance. But I believe their honour pontifications, so maybe they thought there was something special about this region of space that excused the cheat - perhaps the presence of such exceptional species as the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm, and the precursor bomb. They would know if that justification was valid, having ploughed through half the galaxy.

Imagine a fleet of dreadnoughts that can cloak, use point - defense lasers, transform to blazer form, launch limpets and DOGIs, use Yehat shields, warp backwards, use the Syreen song (with Syreen slaves aboard, of course), regrow Mycon crew members, use the Thraddash afterburner, transform (or if that is too difficult to do with a Dreadnaught, just give it some of those long range missiles), fire B.U.T.T missiles, etc.
In at least some of those cases, I don't think it's a case of not being able to develop that technology themselves, I think it's more about an economy of weaponry. Economy of design and resources. For example, the Kzer-Za are responsible for the Ilwrath weapons but don't use cloaks themselves.
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Admiral Zeratul
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 03:55:01 am »

Actually, the Kzer-Za only used the Sa-Matra against the Alliance because the Kohr-Ah fleet was fast approaching. Also, they had nothing to prove to the Alliance, since they viewed them as inferior to begin with. The Kohr-Ah, on the other hand, are a different matter.
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Zeracles
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2011, 05:14:04 am »

Of course, the Shofixti blowing up Delta Gorno with a significant Ur-Quan fleet in the vicinity certainly didn't help either.
Good pont, it's interesting to wonder how things might have turned out differently if the Kzer-Za hadn't used the Sa-Matra against the Chenjesu, such that the Kohr-Ah ended up dealing with the Shofixti.

Actually, the Kzer-Za only used the Sa-Matra against the Alliance because the Kohr-Ah fleet was fast approaching.
And wouldn't it be embarrassing for the Kohr-Ah to arrive and sit around watching the Kzer-Za grapple with the inferiors for another few years? The perfect time to cheat if there's some excuse for it.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 05:34:58 am by Zeracles » Logged

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Draxas
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 04:34:30 pm »

And wouldn't it be embarrassing for the Kohr-Ah to arrive and sit around watching the Kzer-Za grapple with the inferiors for another few years? The perfect time to cheat if there's some excuse for it.

Not embarassing, dangerous. The Kohr-Ah wouldn't wait around, they would engage in the doctrinal conflict immediately, and the Kzer-Za would be obligated to respond in kind while still attempting to hold off the Alliance simultaneously. After all, the Kohr-Ah didn't wait for the Kzer-Za to pacify all races in our region before initiating the conflict, but the Kzer-Za had already dealt with the most troublesome and most likely to interfere (or so they thought, anyway). Better to deal with the stalemate as expediently as possible using the Sa-Matra, than to attempt their typical war of attrition which could still have been going on when the Kohr-Ah arrived.
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Lukipela
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 07:45:19 pm »

Actually, the Kzer-Za only used the Sa-Matra against the Alliance because the Kohr-Ah fleet was fast approaching. Also, they had nothing to prove to the Alliance, since they viewed them as inferior to begin with. The Kohr-Ah, on the other hand, are a different matter.

Yeah, they were winning anyway. They just sped it up.
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Wolframm
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 09:58:13 pm »

They maybe wouldn't even win the war against the Alliance if they had to fight on two fronts, as Draxas said.
This can unlikely be called "speeding up", the Sa-Matra was a kind of their salvation in this desperate situation.
Without the Sa-Matra, the Alliance would be in danger too. Once the Kzer-Za are defeated, nothing would stand between the Alliance and the Kohr-Ah.
And the Kohr-Ah wouldn't be so kind to put them under the energy shields like Kzer-Za did. They would rather prefer to commit a massacre.
In a way, the Sa-Matra saved many lives of a former Alliance members.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 10:07:28 pm by Wolframm » Logged
Draxas
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 04:22:52 pm »

You assume the Alliance would have won the first war without the use of the Sa-Matra, which is probably not the case. The Kzer-Za have been doing what they do for a long time, and have certainly encountered coalitions of aliens willing to stand against them before. They were, in fact, already starting to break the stalemate and push the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm back, they just decided not to wait and fight for every star system, and instead shatter their fleets in one move to speed the process and break the Alliance.
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